Basra

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
BAGHDAD — The allied forces carrying out Operation Iraqi Freedom have gained control of the city of Basra, a Pentagon official has told Fox News.

Iraq's second largest city is now "largely under coalition control," according to the official. Basra has 1.3 million people and is a key economic center in the south of Iraq.

The defense official said that allied forces are now engaged in "mopping up operations" in and around the city, as they clean out remaining pockets of Iraqi resistance.

FoxNews
 

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
I never expected them all to lay down like cheap whores. Many, hopefully most, but not all. However, don't they realize they're going to lose & the only thing this does is make it harder on the rest? All's fair in love & war I suppose.

On Sunday, allied soldiers came under attack in a series of ruses, U.S. officials said, with one group of Iraqis waving the white flag of surrender, then opening up with artillery fire; another group appearing to welcome coalition troops but then attacking them.
 

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
Posty, what was the thinking during Gulf War 1? Did you guys have any surrenders? Were you paranoid about it?
 

flavio

Banned
PostCode said:
Next time you see a white flag, just shot it instead. Problem solved.

Killing those who are surrendering? Bush wants us to believe that we're helping oppressed people. How's he going to pull off that lie with an attitude like that?
 

PT

Off 'Motherfuckin' Topic Elite
Gonz said:
On Sunday, allied soldiers came under attack in a series of ruses, U.S. officials said, with one group of Iraqis waving the white flag of surrender, then opening up with artillery fire; another group appearing to welcome coalition troops but then attacking them.
How do you handle that?
 

flavio

Banned
"Throw down your weapons and put your hands in the air" type of thing I suppose. Other methods have been used over the years as well.
 

Gato_Solo

Out-freaking-standing OTC member
flavio said:
"Throw down your weapons and put your hands in the air" type of thing I suppose. Other methods have been used over the years as well.

The Geneva convention specifically prohibits firing on soldiers carrying a white flag. It als prohibits soldiers waving a white flag to do what the Iraqi's did.

The Geneva convention also prohibits soldiers not in uniform from attacking from civilian areas.

Now for the flip side...

If the country you are warring with breaks the first rule, then how do you know who is surrendering and who isn't? Answer...you don't. Now the Iraqi's are in a position of not being able to surrender.

How about the second? Answer is that you don't. We (the US) are trying to minimize civilian casualties, so Saddam has made all civilians targets as well. Now who do you fight, and who do you let pass by? You have less than a second to decide, because your ass is on the line. Make a mistake, however, and the world will be all over you...Think it over, flav, before you add your opinion. Then give us your wisdom on the matter...

P.S.

The Geneva convention also has answers to the above problems. Take a peek there first. ;)
 

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
I was trying to not say anything, let it remain between Postcode & flavio but , as usual, I can't.

flavio-you weren't there in '91. You aren't there in '03. Back off. We all know you don't like war but attacking a veteran is uncalled for. He knows things you can't even have nightmares about.
 

PostCode

Major contributor!
You can justify the murders if you want. Just proves to me the kind of person you are.


We were scared shitless. We got orders to get ready and move out with about 20 minutes to prepare. I wrote a quick letter home to Grandpa and Mom. We were all pretty much ready to go battle wise already. Arms, ammo, gear and stuff, but mentally I hit a fucking wall. I got promoted when I got over there and was thrown into a TC position. Had my crew to look after now, not just myself. Sure we trained for the last three or four months together day in and day out, but it simply dosen't prepare you for it. Hell, we didn't know what the hell to expect. I was the oldest one on my tank at 22 years old. I started smoking right then and there again. Reached down and pulled a pack from my gunners stash.

Went over the line and didn't stop for 72 hours. Did we shot people? Yes. Did we enjoy it? No. You never get used to, or like, the smell burning flesh and sulfer, nor the thought of who it was you just killed.

After the first day, the Iraqi's were just streaming in. The prisoners were coming so fast, we just left them behind us after we disarmed them. We didn't have anyway of containing them or feeding them. We simply had to move on and let the rear support elements take care of them. Were in a M1A1 Abrams Main Battle Tank....it's not a troop transport, it's a fighting vehicle designed for one thing. Killing the enemy.

To those who think I'm some kind of war loving fanatic, I was there and did my job. I did things I wont talk about and saw things most of you would puke your guts out at seeing. It's a war and shit happens. I don't like it anymore then the next soldier or mother or father. It was my job. When my life and the lives of my crew are on the line, I do my job to the best of my ability. If that means killing the enemy before he care hit me, then so be it.

Murder, however, isn't in the play book. We never murdered any Iraqi prisoners in the first Gulf War nor did we mistreat any prisoners. Murder will only piss the troops off. If anything, this is only going to serve as a morale booster.


How do you handle that?

Instead of lowering your weapons, you become forceful and tell the fuckers to throw their guns aside, shove their heads into the sand and put their hands on their heads.....and prey to Allah that a bullet dosen't interfere with that last thought.
 

freako104

Well-Known Member
Gato_Solo said:
The Geneva convention specifically prohibits firing on soldiers carrying a white flag. It als prohibits soldiers waving a white flag to do what the Iraqi's did.


so a white flag always = surrender and that goes for both sides that they cant attack us and vice-versa? and i know this isnt a part of it and i apologise but i heard on the news this morning about some pows and some video footage that was shot of them in a humiliating fashion. then the newscaster said thast illegal. was that law created in the geneva convention?







flav please have respect for vetrans. theyve seen what you and i havent seen. theve experienced it first hand. they would know better they were there we got to see it on tv and read about it. remember thats totally differnt from being there.
 

Gato_Solo

Out-freaking-standing OTC member
PostCode said:
You can justify the murders if you want. Just proves to me the kind of person you are.

Who...Me? I never said anything about murder. I only mentioned what the Geneva convention says about the whole thing...and what could go through your mind if you see a white flag after such an incident.
 

Squiggy

ThunderDick
Thank you Posty. I know that can be difficult to do. I'm glad that you did it just so some understand that its not a frivilous thing that they were so willing to jump into.
We are there nnow. You had better all tighten your belts and get ready to deal with the reality of it. Most of it will not be pretty. We can't fight the whole war from 20,000 feet. There will be death and blood both amongst the combatants and the civilians. There will be tremendous acts of honor and dishonor...and neither side will be immune.
 

freako104

Well-Known Member
flavio said:
Killing those who are surrendering? Bush wants us to believe that we're helping oppressed people. How's he going to pull off that lie with an attitude like that?


i might be alone in this but i doubt shooting at someone means you surrender. they used the white flag as a way to sya they did before they opened fire.
 

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
The GC says you can't appease civilian curiosity with footage of POWs. Our guys were prisoners & Al Jazeera showed some horrifying footage. So far, from what I've seen, we're not showing them after surrender. It's all been prior or during surrender.

White flag always means surrender. Unless you are a murderer.
 

Squiggy

ThunderDick
WTF...This is getting rediculous. We should NOT have shown the POWs either. Quit trying to whitewash shit or this WILL become another Viet Nam. :hmm:
 
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