AlladinSane
Well-Known Member
I don't know about Catholicism really, but according to Christ it is possible for sure.
First Muslim Congressman
- Thread starter catocom
- Start date
I don't know about Catholicism really, but according to Christ it is possible for sure.
spike
New Member
Gato_Solo
Out-freaking-standing OTC member
You'd win that bet, too. Most Muslims are Asian. Most terrorists are Middle Eastern...Although the Phillipines, Indonesia, India, Pakistan, and Sri Lanka have their fair share, they mostly stick to their own countries...
spike
New Member
So your making things up then.
spike
New Member
Got any numbers/statistics on that? Just curious.
chcr
Too cute for words
What he said, Gato. I'm not arguing, mind, just curious too. I know the only ones you here about in the American media are middle-eastern, but I also know that a lot of others exist.
Gato_Solo
Out-freaking-standing OTC member
What he said, Gato. I'm not arguing, mind, just curious too. I know the only ones you here about in the American media are middle-eastern, but I also know that a lot of others exist.
Partial list of known terrorist organizations from the CDI. Another list from the Department of State. There are most likely more, but they are either very small, or very localized.
spike
New Member
There was another list earlier in the thread but I was kind of looking for something that shows most terrorists are Middle Eastern.
Gato_Solo
Out-freaking-standing OTC member
You can count, can't you? What did you think...all terrorists would raise their hands to be counted in a census?
spike
New Member
You can count, can't you? What did you think...all terrorists would raise their hands to be counted in a census?
Ok, so you had no basis at all for saying "most terrorists are Middle Eastern". I thought maybe you did for some reason.
Cerise
Well-Known Member
spike said:
Not so much....
Muslims do not touch the book unless in a state of ablution....
http://alsaher.com/islam/
Strict Muslims.....hold that non-believers should not touch the book.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2005-05-16-holy-books_x.htm
Prisoners also complained about "non-believers" touching the book, according to the documents.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/25/gitmo.quran/index.html
...deal with sensitivity about the Koran in several ways, including enlisting some of the Muslims working for the military as translators to handle the books during inspections, so that nonbelievers would not touch the books.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/17/p...d=1&ei=5070&en=491f34181548e058&ex=1165381200
What percentage would define "most"---51% of the groups on those lists?
Gato_Solo
Out-freaking-standing OTC member
Did you even count the number of organizations on the list, and extrapolate from there? No? I didn't think so. You know, you are very consistent. Very wrong, but very consistent.
spike
New Member
Did you even count the number of organizations on the list, and extrapolate from there? No? I didn't think so. You know, you are very consistent. Very wrong, but very consistent.
You'd have to know the number in each group to make any kind of estimate. So apparently you had no basis.
What the hell am I wrong about anyway? I asked if you had some numbers to support your claim and you don't.
Gato_Solo
Out-freaking-standing OTC member
No. You don't. You can extrapolate, which you refuse to do. In your rush to 'prove me wrong', you abandon reason. In fact, by your own account, you have basis to naysay me, since you cannot prove otherwise.
spike
New Member
Not so much....
Strict Muslims.....hold that non-believers should not touch the book.
And what percentage are "strict"?
Out of all terrorists (not groups) more than 50%.
spike
New Member
I'm not trying to prove you "wrong" just stating that your claim has no basis. Which it doesn't. Reason says that in order to assert "most terrorists are Middle Eastern" you would have to have some reasonable information on the number of terrorists worldwide and the number who are Middle Eastern.
Since you admitted yourself that there is no census that claim is unfounded.
A quick glance through this list makes it appear that less than most of the groups are not middle eastern, but there could be 5 people in some groups and 10,000 in others so who knows
It's not debatable, really. Thomas Sparks apparently has a misunderstanding - he is only quoting some parts and he is not presenting the whole picture. You can be saved through innocent ignorance.
You can understand that it is possible to attain Salvation outside the Church just by reading what the Church Fathers have said regarding the subject.
MrBishop
Well-Known Member
Doesn't seem to prove your point, Gotholic
"Anyone who receives the sacrament of baptism, whether in the Catholic Church or in a heretical or schismatic one, receives the whole sacrament; but salvation, which is the strength of the sacrament, he will not have, if he has had the sacrament outside the Catholic Church [and remains in deliberate schism]. He must therefore return to the Church, not so that he might receive again the sacrament of baptism, which no one dare repeat in any baptized person, but so that he may receive eternal life in Catholic society, for the obtaining of which no one is suited who, even with the sacrament of baptism, remains estranged from the Catholic Church" (The Rule of Faith 43 [A.D. 524]).
Many of the quotes mentioned being brought back to the Church, or baptism etc... What of those who don't know about Christianity or don't believe it but live a wholesome life?
***
On topic:
"The point is that for what actually happens on the floor of the House, with 435 people, you won't see a Bible, you won't see a Torah, you won't see a Quran," said Rep. Earl Blumenauer, D-Ore.
It's during a private ceremony later, when new members of Congress stand with the speaker and re-enact their swearing-in, that religious texts sometimes appear. And that's when Ellison will pick up the Quran -- and other new members will bring in their family Bibles or new ones bought just for the occasion.
"That's when you will see a hand on a religious text," said Fred Beuttler, deputy historian of the House of Representatives. "But that's an informal ceremony for the members or the members' own purposes. It's not the official swearing-in ceremony of the House, when no religious text is used."
http://worldpoliticsnews.com/nation...ongress-Wants-Quran-for-Swearing-in-Ceremony/
So much for that. Right?
"Anyone who receives the sacrament of baptism, whether in the Catholic Church or in a heretical or schismatic one, receives the whole sacrament; but salvation, which is the strength of the sacrament, he will not have, if he has had the sacrament outside the Catholic Church [and remains in deliberate schism]. He must therefore return to the Church, not so that he might receive again the sacrament of baptism, which no one dare repeat in any baptized person, but so that he may receive eternal life in Catholic society, for the obtaining of which no one is suited who, even with the sacrament of baptism, remains estranged from the Catholic Church" (The Rule of Faith 43 [A.D. 524]).
Many of the quotes mentioned being brought back to the Church, or baptism etc... What of those who don't know about Christianity or don't believe it but live a wholesome life?
***
On topic:
"The point is that for what actually happens on the floor of the House, with 435 people, you won't see a Bible, you won't see a Torah, you won't see a Quran," said Rep. Earl Blumenauer, D-Ore.
It's during a private ceremony later, when new members of Congress stand with the speaker and re-enact their swearing-in, that religious texts sometimes appear. And that's when Ellison will pick up the Quran -- and other new members will bring in their family Bibles or new ones bought just for the occasion.
"That's when you will see a hand on a religious text," said Fred Beuttler, deputy historian of the House of Representatives. "But that's an informal ceremony for the members or the members' own purposes. It's not the official swearing-in ceremony of the House, when no religious text is used."
http://worldpoliticsnews.com/nation...ongress-Wants-Quran-for-Swearing-in-Ceremony/
So much for that. Right?
