Israel? Gaza? Hamas? Who? What? Where?

[2minkey]

Nobody wants to protect them. Nobody wants to take up their cause. They are scapegoats...

this sounds strangely familiar. hey, let's give 'em a homeland and displace some other miserable group of people!

 

[catocom]

I vaguely remember some bits in the Bible about Jews and Israel. I don't remember anything about Palestine or Palestinians.

They were Persian then.

 

[MrBishop]

Ummmm..... Wouldn't 100% of all people like this?

Nope - some want more.

 

[Gonz]

this sounds strangely familiar. hey, let's give 'em a homeland and displace some other miserable group of people!

They were given full opportunity to crreate a government, have borders & live their lives where they were.

They refused.

They were Persian then.

Don't tell the Iranians this.

 

[MrBishop]

The separation was bollocksed up. Did you look at that map? What the hell kind of border lines are those?

 

[Gonz]

Now now, Bish. The UN knows best.

 

[catocom]

Don't tell the Iranians this.

they are mixed in.
Why do you think they are backing them so much?
No, not just because 'the enemy of my enemy...'.

 

[2minkey]

Don't tell the Iranians this.

something tells me they are kinda aware of that. and perhaps it's even a big deal to them.

 

[Gonz]

Since Iran is Persia, I hope they know.

 

[MrBishop]

Here's a VERY interesting read.

The One-State Solution

By MUAMMAR QADDAFI
Tripoli, Libya
THE shocking level of the last wave of Israeli-Palestinian violence, which ended with this weekend’s cease-fire, reminds us why a final resolution to the so-called Middle East crisis is so important. It is vital not just to break this cycle of destruction and injustice, but also to deny the religious extremists in the region who feed on the conflict an excuse to advance their own causes.



But everywhere one looks, among the speeches and the desperate diplomacy, there is no real way forward. A just and lasting peace between Israel and the Palestinians is possible, but it lies in the history of the people of this conflicted land, and not in the tired rhetoric of partition and two-state solutions.


Although it’s hard to realize after the horrors we’ve just witnessed, the state of war between the Jews and Palestinians has not always existed. In fact, many of the divisions between Jews and Palestinians are recent ones. The very name “Palestine” was commonly used to describe the whole area, even by the Jews who lived there, until 1948, when the name “Israel” came into use.



Jews and Muslims are cousins descended from Abraham. Throughout the centuries both faced cruel persecution and often found refuge with one another. Arabs sheltered Jews and protected them after maltreatment at the hands of the Romans and their expulsion from Spain in the Middle Ages.

Continues HERE

Written by: Muammar Qaddafi - the leader of Libya.

 

[Gonz]

I'll read teh rest tomorrow....however, Qaddafi has a vested interest in their lving together...Libya has a large Palestianan refugee problem.

 

[MrBishop]

vested interest or not...a well written piece.
Off hand, I'd say that a lot of people/countries has a vested interest in seeing peace in that particular piece of the world.

 

[catocom]

I'm sure.
There's a lot of people There, and countries around there.

 

[valkyrie]

Israel wants out of Gaza, to wash their hands of it, but Gaza keeps throwing rockets over the border, so Israel goes postal

root for israel or you are an anti-semite.

Eh... I'm not rooting for anyone. I hate everyone. *grunt*

However, here's the jist of it right here...
if Hamas would stop ...
a) firing rockets at civilians on the Israeli side, and
b) using civilians, especially children, as human shields

and start...
a) acting in the best interest of the people they now govern,
b) get on with rebuilding and improving Gaza and the West Bank...
c) learn diplomacy, and
d) desire peace for the Palestinian people...

... then there wouldn't be any violent "retaliation" on either side!

Just because Hamas is the elected government doesn't make firing rockets at Israeli civilians OK. It should mean that Hamas has to start acting like a civilized government should and stop acting like a bunch of ignorant terrorists.

 

[spike]

And if Israel started acting right and many people quit ignoring their part in this maybe we'd get somewhere.

 

[catocom]

the only way Israel could "act right", is to leave the land.
THAT, is hamas' stance they've said.

 

[2minkey]

the only way Israel could "act right", is to leave the land.
THAT, is hamas' stance they've said.

right. and if israel wasn't so good at killing arab children "accidentally" during state-sanctioned assassinations, hamas, lacking the popular outrage that has fueled it, would never have risen to power. so now it is chicken or egg. this shit is fueled by extremists assholes on both sides.

 

[catocom]

I've never said Israel was/is faultless.
I don't agree with all their actions. I understand their reasoning, but disagree
with how they handle some of it.

IMO, that's one reason I've jumped behind the legitimate Lebanon government.
They would be a perfect go between, because they seem to understand both points of view greatly.

 

[2minkey]

I've never said Israel was/is faultless.

right, but certain others here carry it as a working assumption.

 

[MrBishop]

Eh... I'm not rooting for anyone. I hate everyone. *grunt*

However, here's the jist of it right here...
if Hamas would stop ...
a) firing rockets at civilians on the Israeli side, and
b) using civilians, especially children, as human shields

and start...
a) acting in the best interest of the people they now govern,
b) get on with rebuilding and improving Gaza and the West Bank...
c) learn diplomacy, and
d) desire peace for the Palestinian people...

... then there wouldn't be any violent "retaliation" on either side!

Just because Hamas is the elected government doesn't make firing rockets at Israeli civilians OK. It should mean that Hamas has to start acting like a civilized government should and stop acting like a bunch of ignorant terrorists.

Israel doesn't want Hamas acting like a civilized GVT. That would give them (Hamas) recognition as a viable GVT. Israel wants Hamas gone..period.

Which is why Israel doesn't want money to rebuild Gaza going through Hamas..especially if it comes from Iran.
They don't want to deal directly with Hamas.
The EU and America doesn't want to deal directly with Hamas.
Nobody seems to want to do anything with Hamas except overthrow it..or failing that, Isolate it until civil war overthrows it.

How do you isolate it and add pressure?
Limit fresh water - check
Limit fuel - check
Limit electricity - check
Limit medical supplies - check
Limit imports (Food, clothing, building materials...)- check
Limit border crossings - check

All these have been done and it's not working...it's just ticking off the Palestinians who throw rockets over the border and give Israel yet another excuse to bomb the hell out of Gaza.

You want it to work?
1) Accept that Hamas rules Gaza and treat them like any other GVT.
2) Take down the pressure a multitude of notches
3) Let Hamas try and rebuild and run Gaza (If they can't manage it, they'll get voted out).
4) Remove Hamas from the terrorist list. It ain't helping.