OK so the camels are coming home to roost?

[Bobby Hogg]

You never, ever see race riots in the US.

Just in case anyone missed it, I was being sarcastic there. Shouldn't have really, it doesn't come across too well on the internet.

It was in response to any suggestion that this situation in Paris is any different to riots seen in the US (or many other countries around the world for that matter, including my own).

It's borne out of frustration, initially, and then the fact that a lot of young people just really enjoy rioting takes over.

 

[The Other One]

That website is a joke.

Wellll hows about

http://www.expatica.com/source/site...ian+group+calls+France+%92enemy+number+one%92

PARIS, Sept 27 (AFP) - An Algerian Islamist organisation, the Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat (GSPC), has issued a call for action against France which it describes as "enemy number one", intelligence officials said Tuesday.

"The only way to teach France to behave is jihad and the Islamic martyr," the group's leader Abu Mossab Abdelwadoud, also own as Abdelmalek Dourkdal, was quoted as saying in an Internet message earlier this month.

"France is our enemy number one, the enemy of our religion, the enemy of our community," he was quoted as saying.

This fight is about sovereignty, not economics. To establish their religion and strike down the non-believers.

The Islamic "youth" are demonstrating the inability of the Muslim faith to contribute anything of value to modern society: they are not satisfied with their handouts from leeching off the system and do not want to earn a living honestly and legally. They don't want to assimiliate into a new country, to become French citizens; they want their culture to take over. So they engage in their favorite pasttimes: arson, murder, and mayhem.

It's 2 weeks old and France is still waiting for the UN to step in. If they had any sense they'd declare martial law, and shoot to kill any rioter. Chirac better get a clue, because sharia is in his future. The Islamic community wants to establish a foothold right there in the heart of France, they want the French to get the hell out and leave them alone, and it cannot be tolerated. No way no how.

 

[Bobby Hogg]

So some Islamic group mouths off, that means anything?

You'd think that no other country in Europe has experienced times of civil strife and racial tension. I wish people would stop trying to foment religious wars over what is essentially an economic problem. That goes for the Islamic groups trying to hi-jack the riots, too.

You've got impoverished people with a sense of oppression (real or percieved, doesn't really matter), they've been set off by an incident and now they're causing some trouble. It's not an Islamic up-rising. France has had to deal with Algerian terrorists for years, so Islamic terrorism would be nothing new to France, but this is rioting, pure and simple.

Your comments about Islamic youth being unable to contribute anything useful to society is a ludicrous comment and just shows you up to be a rabid bigot more than anything else. The Muslim population of France is 5 million, as you say, and perhaps a thousandth of that, at the very, very most is involved in these disturbances.

Your comments are based on nothing but right-wing rhetoric and have absolutely no foundation in reality. Additionally, the riots in France are not solely due to Muslims and anyone trying to claim such a statement to be fact could only be doings so in order to use an already wretched situation to stir up yet more anti-Islamic sentiment. It's sickening, frankly, just as sickening as Algerian terrorists trying to promote the same religious war. You're both on the same side, essentially, that of bigotry and ignorance.

 

[Dave]

So some Islamic group mouths off, that means anything?

yes. to the feverent muslim factions it does.

anyone trying to claim such a statement to be fact could only be doings so in order to use an already wretched situation to stir up yet more anti-Islamic sentiment

how about stirring up more anti-western sentiment among the faithful. works both ways. now that the "religious leaders" have put their two cents in it will give the rioters something else to latch onto.

The Muslim population of France is 5 million, as you say, and perhaps a thousandth of that, at the very, very most is involved in these disturbances.

and that is about all it takes to send a fragile situation that could be settled in a reasonable manner into a major situation/confrontation.

 

[chcr]

This fight is about sovereignty, not economics.

Every conflict in human history has been about economics or population pressure regardless of the reasons given.

 

[Winky]

hah it is all aboot religion and race you silly rabbit

 

[MrBishop]

It's not a race riot--it's jihad

If it was a jihad, they'd be burning churches and synagogues, not Reneaults and Citroens.

 

[Bobby Hogg]

yes. to the feverent muslim factions it does.

They are irrelevant. You only play into their hands if you try to turn this situation into a religious fight, because that is exactly what they want, and they work it both ways - they try to influence Muslims and they try to influence "us" (as Western citizens) by trying to further ostracise ordinary Muslims in our minds.

how about stirring up more anti-western sentiment among the faithful. works both ways. now that the "religious leaders" have put their two cents in it will give the rioters something else to latch onto.

No, it won't. Of course, you do realise you are buying into it by believing there is a religious aspect to the riots. So well done.

and that is about all it takes to send a fragile situation that could be settled in a reasonable manner into a major situation/confrontation.

I think you missed my point. I made that comment because the poster I was replying to suggested that Muslims are incapable of contributing to Western society which is quite apparently untrue to anyone who actually lives and works in a Western society alongside Muslims.

Added to that, it's only pure speculation that the trouble is being perpetrated solely by Muslims. Harmful speculation, designed only to incite anti-Islamic sentiment.

It's so fucking stupid. You realise after a while that people who go on like this are just as bad as the Islamic extremists who spout anti-Western rubbish. Their cause is the same - to create animosity and fear between people.

 

[Dave]

They are irrelevant. You only play into their hands if you try to turn this situation into a religious fight, because that is exactly what they want, and they work it both ways - they try to influence Muslims and they try to influence "us" (as Western citizens) by trying to further ostracise ordinary Muslims in our minds.

that is exactly why they are relevant. they are the ones that will exert the most influence outside of the riot area. personally, i'm not worried about the west playing into their hands. i'm more concerned about the feverant/fanatical factions taking the ramblings to heart and exacerbating an already bad situation.

No, it won't. Of course, you do realise you are buying into it by believing there is a religious aspect to the riots. So well done.

i never said i was buying into anything. reread what i wrote.

Your comments about Islamic youth being unable to contribute anything useful to society is a ludicrous comment and just shows you up to be a rabid bigot more than anything else. The Muslim population of France is 5 million, as you say, and perhaps a thousandth of that, at the very, very most is involved in these disturbances. ...... I think you missed my point. I made that comment because the poster I was replying to suggested that Muslims are incapable of contributing to Western society which is quite apparently untrue to anyone who actually lives and works in a Western society alongside Muslims.

your point was made with the first sentence. that is if you meant to be inflammatory.

ludicrous comment.... rabid bigot

the second sentence seems to have nothing to do with your point.

 

[Gonz]

Having lived thru a couple of riots, it's incredibly hard for me to use this story to point fingers & laugh but if this whole situation ain't the very definition of poetic justice I don't know what is.


Now for the Irony:

Gaddafi offers help over riots
From correspondents in Tripoli 06Nov2005

LIBYAN leader Colonel Muammar Gaddafi called French President Jacques Chirac overnight to express his concern about rioting in Paris suburbs and other parts of France.

The Libyan national news agency reported that Mr Chirac thanked Colonel Gaddafi for his interest and reassured him that the situation was under control.

Colonel Gaddafi was reported saying Libya was "disposed to help France overcome these events," which he described as "regrettable."

The report did not outline what kind of aid might have been forthcoming.

French authorities have stepped up police action against youths responsible for more than a week of urban riots, in which hundreds of vehicles were set alight, as suspicions grew that gangs were becoming increasingly organised.

 

[Winky]

The new French the future of France
ain't it a wunderful thang?

 

[Winky]

Unrest Reaches Paris; 28 Cars Torched

 

[Winky]

two werds

ethnic

cleansing

 

[Gato_Solo]

Now for the Irony:

Psst...linkage?

BTW...

French authorities have stepped up police action against youths responsible for more than a week of urban riots, in which hundreds of vehicles were set alight, as suspicions grew that gangs were becoming increasingly organised.

Shouldn't they have done this earlier?

 

[Gato_Solo]

Too much, too little, too late...

 

[Gonz]

What I want from the authorities... are words of peace

Dilil Boubakeur
Head of Paris mosque

What I want from Islamic religious leaders is calls for peace. Looks like we're both SOL, huh?

 

[Bobby Hogg]

Psst...linkage?

BTW...

French authorities have stepped up police action against youths responsible for more than a week of urban riots, in which hundreds of vehicles were set alight, as suspicions grew that gangs were becoming increasingly organised.

Shouldn't they have done this earlier?

The police are in a difficult position in these situations.

In September we had a week of severe rioting in Belfast (not that unusual) with shots being fired at the police, yet local politicians accuse the police of being heavy handed as soon as a single rioter gets manhandled or hurt at the hands of a police officer. Then the sense of injustice is piled on further.

I'm disappointed at the gloating here by some posters but not particularly surprised. Rioting like this has happened in many countries and none of our nations are immune to it. It'd be complacency to assume that civil violence like this will not break out in the US at some point in the future on a widespread basis, or to assume that the French are the only nation to have a lesson to learn from it.

 

[Gato_Solo]

The police are in a difficult position in these situations.

I can agree with that.

In September we had a week of severe rioting in Belfast (not that unusual) with shots being fired at the police, yet local politicians accuse the police of being heavy handed as soon as a single rioter gets manhandled or hurt at the hands of a police officer. Then the sense of injustice is piled on further.

Happens all too often when people emphasize differences instead of joining the whole.

I'm disappointed at the gloating here by some posters but not particularly surprised. Rioting like this has happened in many countries and none of our nations are immune to it. It'd be complacency to assume that civil violence like this will not break out in the US at some point in the future on a widespread basis, or to assume that the French are the only nation to have a lesson to learn from it.

The French deserve everything they get...and not because of their stance on the war. They didn't learn in WWI that appeasement doesn't work. They didn't learn in WWII that appeasement doesn't work. Now they try it again. Most times a firm no gets you more help than a firm maybe.

 

[Bobby Hogg]

Whether you can say the French deserve it or not is a matter of opinion: personally, I don't think French people should be having their homes and cars burnt and destroyed, no matter what their government has done in the past. Just as I don't think American citizens should be killed or attacked because of what their government has done to the rest of the world.

The French look after their own interests as the Americans do, as the British, Russians and Chinese do. None of them have clean hands. That doesn't mean their people deserve to suffer violence.

 

[Gato_Solo]

Whether you can say the French deserve it or not is a matter of opinion: personally, I don't think French people should be having their homes and cars burnt and destroyed, no matter what their government has done in the past. Just as I don't think American citizens should be killed or attacked because of what their government has done to the rest of the world.

The French government let the inmates run the asylum. They're about to do it again. It's easier to give in, than to take a stand.

The French look after their own interests as the Americans do, as the British, Russians and Chinese do. None of them have clean hands. That doesn't mean their people deserve to suffer violence.

They're people are the main reason they're having violence! The emigrees moved in and, instead of being welcomed, the French moved out. They (the emigrees) soon had their own neighborhoods, and now the French are upset? They gave up quite a bit earlier in this than you think...and it wasn't the government. It is, and always has been, the attitude of the people.