Virginia Tech

MrBishop

Well-Known Member
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]School Safety[/FONT]
  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Between 1994 and 1999, there were 220 school associated violent events resulting in 253 deaths - - 74.5% of these involved firearms. Handguns caused almost 60% of these deaths. (Journal of American Medical Association, December 2001) [/FONT]
  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In 1998-99 academic year, 3,523 students were expelled for bringing a firearm to school. This is a decrease from the 5,724 students expelled in 1996-97 for bringing a firearm to school. (U.S. Department of Education, October 2000) [/FONT]
  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Nearly 8% of adolescents in urban junior and senior high schools miss at least one day of school each month because they are afraid to attend. (National Mental Health & Education Center for Children & Families, National Association of School Psychologists 1998) [/FONT]
  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The National School Boards Association estimates that more than 135,000 guns are brought into U.S. schools each day. (NSBA, 1993)
    [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Children and Gun Violence[/FONT]
  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]America is losing too many children to gun violence. Between 1979 and 2001, gunfire killed 90,000 children and teens in America. (Children's Defense Fund and National Center for Health Statistics) [/FONT]
  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In one year, more children and teens died from gunfire than from cancer, pneumonia, influenza, asthma, and HIV/AIDS combined. (Children's Defense Fund) [/FONT]
  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The rate of firearm deaths among kids under age 15 is almost 12 times higher in the United States than in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention)[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]America and Gun Violence [/FONT]
  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Every day, more than 80 Americans die from gun violence. (Coalition to Stop Gun Violence) [/FONT]
  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The rate of firearm deaths among kids under age 15 is almost 12 times higher in the United States than in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention) [/FONT]
  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]American kids are 16 times more likely to be murdered with a gun, 11 times more likely to commit suicide with a gun, and nine times more likely to die from a firearm accident than children in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control) [/FONT]
http://www.neahin.org/programs/schoolsafety/gunsafety/statistics.htm
 

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
Lies, damned lies & statistics.

School Safety said:
school associated

That doesn't say AT SCHOOL. I knew this kid once..we are now associated.

The method may change but criminals will act. I'd prefer an armed populace. If you, the criminal, are more apt to confront an armed victim, I bet you think twice.
 

spike

New Member
If you want to see the "Gun control only controls law obiding citizens, not criminals" argument get shot to hell quickly you just have to look at the number of people getting killed by guns in countries with gun control vs. the US.

The study used 1994 statistics supplied by the 36 countries. Of the 88,649 gun deaths reported by all the countries, the United States accounted for 45 percent, said Etienne Krug, a CDC researcher and co-author of the article.
Japan, where very few people own guns, averages 124 gun-related attacks a year, and less than 1 percent end in death. Police often raid the homes of those suspected of having weapons.
The study found that gun-related deaths were five to six times higher in the Americas than in Europe or Australia and New Zealand and 95 times higher than in Asia.
Here are gun-related deaths per 100,000 people in the world's 36 richest countries in 1994: United States 14.24; Brazil 12.95; Mexico 12.69; Estonia 12.26; Argentina 8.93; Northern Ireland 6.63; Finland 6.46; Switzerland 5.31; France 5.15; Canada 4.31; Norway 3.82; Austria 3.70; Portugal 3.20; Israel 2.91; Belgium 2.90; Australia 2.65; Slovenia 2.60; Italy 2.44; New Zealand 2.38; Denmark 2.09; Sweden 1.92; Kuwait 1.84; Greece 1.29; Germany 1.24; Hungary 1.11; Republic of Ireland 0.97; Spain 0.78; Netherlands 0.70; Scotland 0.54; England and Wales 0.41; Taiwan 0.37; Singapore 0.21; Mauritius 0.19; Hong Kong 0.14; South Korea 0.12; Japan 0.05.

http://www.guncite.com/cnngunde.html


I love hearing people talk about people talking up this romantic silly notion that more convenient access to guns would mean less violent crime and they'd only be used in noble defense situations.

People would never grab them and use them in anger, while drunk, or depressed.
 

MrBishop

Well-Known Member
Lies, damned lies & statistics.



That doesn't say AT SCHOOL. I knew this kid once..we are now associated.

The method may change but criminals will act. I'd prefer an armed populace. If you, the criminal, are more apt to confront an armed victim, I bet you think twice.

I'd raise that bet, but I somehow think that an armed populace would use said arms more often in what amounts to petty arguments.

Think of all the bar brawls or street fights, road rage etc... now think of those same numbers but with people holding guns.

Truly scary!
 

Professur

Well-Known Member
Nugent: Gun-free zones are recipe for disaster
POSTED: 11:25 a.m. EDT, April 20, 2007
By Ted Nugent
Special to CNN

Editor's note: Rock guitarist Ted Nugent has sold more than 30 million albums. He's also a gun rights activist and serves on the board of directors of the National Rifle Association. His program, "Ted Nugent Spirit of the Wild," can be seen on the Outdoor Channel.


WACO, Texas (CNN) -- Zero tolerance, huh? Gun-free zones, huh? Try this on for size: Columbine gun-free zone, New York City pizza shop gun-free zone, Luby's Cafeteria gun-free zone, Amish school in Pennsylvania gun-free zone and now Virginia Tech gun-free zone.

Anybody see what the evil Brady Campaign and other anti-gun cults have created? I personally have zero tolerance for evil and denial. And America had best wake up real fast that the brain-dead celebration of unarmed helplessness will get you killed every time, and I've about had enough of it.

Nearly a decade ago, a Springfield, Oregon, high schooler, a hunter familiar with firearms, was able to bring an unfolding rampage to an abrupt end when he identified a gunman attempting to reload his .22-caliber rifle, made the tactical decision to make a move and tackled the shooter.

A few years back, an assistant principal at Pearl High School in Mississippi, which was a gun-free zone, retrieved his legally owned Colt .45 from his car and stopped a Columbine wannabe from continuing his massacre at another school after he had killed two and wounded more at Pearl.

At an eighth-grade school dance in Pennsylvania, a boy fatally shot a teacher and wounded two students before the owner of the dance hall brought the killing to a halt with his own gun.

More recently, just a few miles up the road from Virginia Tech, two law school students ran to fetch their legally owned firearm to stop a madman from slaughtering anybody and everybody he pleased. These brave, average, armed citizens neutralized him pronto.

My hero, Dr. Suzanne Gratia Hupp, was not allowed by Texas law to carry her handgun into Luby's Cafeteria that fateful day in 1991, when due to bureaucrat-forced unarmed helplessness she could do nothing to stop satanic George Hennard from killing 23 people and wounding more than 20 others before he shot himself. Hupp was unarmed for no other reason than denial-ridden "feel good" politics.

She has since led the charge for concealed weapon upgrade in Texas, where we can now stop evil. Yet, there are still the mindless puppets of the Brady Campaign and other anti-gun organizations insisting on continuing the gun-free zone insanity by which innocents are forced into unarmed helplessness. Shame on them. Shame on America. Shame on the anti-gunners all.

No one was foolish enough to debate Ryder truck regulations or ammonia nitrate restrictions or a "cult of agriculture fertilizer" following the unabashed evil of Timothy McVeigh's heinous crime against America on that fateful day in Oklahoma City. No one faulted kitchen utensils or other hardware of choice after Jeffrey Dahmer was caught drugging, mutilating, raping, murdering and cannibalizing his victims. Nobody wanted "steak knife control" as they autopsied the dead nurses in Chicago, Illinois, as Richard Speck went on trial for mass murder.

Evil is as evil does, and laws disarming guaranteed victims make evil people very, very happy. Shame on us.

Already spineless gun control advocates are squawking like chickens with their tiny-brained heads chopped off, making political hay over this most recent, devastating Virginia Tech massacre, when in fact it is their own forced gun-free zone policy that enabled the unchallenged methodical murder of 32 people.

Thirty-two people dead on a U.S. college campus pursuing their American Dream, mowed-down over an extended period of time by a lone, non-American gunman in illegal possession of a firearm on campus in defiance of a zero-tolerance gun law. Feel better yet? Didn't think so.

Who doesn't get this? Who has the audacity to demand unarmed helplessness? Who likes dead good guys?

I'll tell you who. People who tramp on the Second Amendment, that's who. People who refuse to accept the self-evident truth that free people have the God-given right to keep and bear arms, to defend themselves and their loved ones. People who are so desperate in their drive to control others, so mindless in their denial that they pretend access to gas causes arson, Ryder trucks and fertilizer cause terrorism, water causes drowning, forks and spoons cause obesity, dialing 911 will somehow save your life, and that their greedy clamoring to "feel good" is more important than admitting that armed citizens are much better equipped to stop evil than unarmed, helpless ones.

Pray for the families of victims everywhere, America. Study the methodology of evil. It has a profile, a system, a preferred environment where victims cannot fight back. Embrace the facts, demand upgrade and be certain that your children's school has a better plan than Virginia Tech or Columbine. Eliminate the insanity of gun-free zones, which will never, ever be gun-free zones. They will only be good guy gun-free zones, and that is a recipe for disaster written in blood on the altar of denial. I, for one, refuse to genuflect there.


Source

I can quote someone else's work too.
 

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
If you want to see the "Gun control only controls law obiding citizens, not criminals" argument get shot to hell quickly you just have to look at the number of people getting killed by guns in countries with gun control vs. the US.

When any one of those countries exceeds three hundrend million in population...I may pay attention.
 

spike

New Member
When any one of those countries exceeds three hundrend million in population...I may pay attention.

It's per 100,000 people so I'm not sure what assigning an arbitrary number to your requirement has to do with anything.
 

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
I'll tell you who. People who tramp on the Second Amendment, that's who. People who refuse to accept the self-evident truth that free people have the God-given right to keep and bear arms, to defend themselves and their loved ones. People who are so desperate in their drive to control others, so mindless in their denial that they pretend access to gas causes arson, Ryder trucks and fertilizer cause terrorism, water causes drowning, forks and spoons cause obesity, dialing 911 will somehow save your life, and that their greedy clamoring to "feel good" is more important than admitting that armed citizens are much better equipped to stop evil than unarmed, helpless ones.

God Bless Ted Nugent.
 

Professur

Well-Known Member
When any one of those countries exceeds three hundrend million in population...I may pay attention.

When any of the antis have had a gun shoved in their face, and then say they don't want anyone else available to save their ass, I may pay attention.


Seriously, think about it for a minute. This kid took how long getting those guns? All the background checks cleared fine. That takes time. If he couldn't get guns, is anyone seriously foolish enough to think he wouldn't have taken another route? I'll wager more than half the people here in this thread alone have the makings for a good pipe bomb right in their own homes. The recipe is no further away than your keyboard. And he was in a University!!! You think maybe they might have some chemistry books there?

Not to mention that, at Harbor Freight, for under $500 (see how much he paid for the Glock) you could buy a lathe-mill and be more than capable of making any number of guns with precious few hours of practice.

Making guns harder to get wouldn't have stopped this asshole anymore than making cube trucks harder to rent would have hindered McVeigh.
 

spike

New Member
Making guns harder to get wouldn't have stopped this asshole anymore than making cube trucks harder to rent would have hindered McVeigh.

Maybe not this particular asshole but in general making guns harder to get has an undeniable effect of less gun death as is made completely obvious by the countries shown above.

Hard to argue with plain old facts.
 

Professur

Well-Known Member
Maybe not this particular asshole but in general making guns harder to get has an undeniable effect of less gun death as is made completely obvious by the countries shown above.

Hard to argue with plain old facts.


Less gun deaths. Lets examine that, shall we? Less gun deaths. Because now the ones with guns aren't opposed, so they don't even have to fire a shot to commit their crime, do they? Criminals are criminals. They're not going to hand over their guns just because a politician says they should. They're not gonna buy them at stores either.

The only gun deaths you're gonna prevent are accidental shootings, which damn well should be prevented by education and gun safety, not by blocking gun ownership.

I'll put it to you frankly. If the american people can't be trusted to own guns, they can't be trusted to vote, operate heavy machinery, or reproduce. Either you trust them to be smart enough, or you don't. Choose.
 

spike

New Member
Less gun deaths. Lets examine that, shall we? Less gun deaths. Because now the ones with guns aren't opposed, so they don't even have to fire a shot to commit their crime, do they?

Your examination is just silly speculation. Now if you could just back that up with some facts that show that most of the countries with stricter gun control have higher crime rates you might have something.

Go ahead.

I'll put it to you frankly. If the american people can't be trusted to own guns, they can't be trusted to vote, operate heavy machinery, or reproduce. Either you trust them to be smart enough, or you don't. Choose.

By that logic we should trust them to drive any speed they want, make explosive factories in their homes, buy missile launchers at convenience stores, explode grenades in the parks, have all drugs legal, and perform surgery without a license.

Either we trust them or not right?
 

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
in general making guns harder to get has an undeniable effect of less gun death as is made completely obvious by the countries shown above.

Supposition, at best. You can't prove a negative. I am so sick of the system that I go around it because it's invasive & unnecessary. It's not a big deal.
 

Professur

Well-Known Member
Your examination is just silly speculation. Now if you could just back that up with some facts that show that most of the countries with stricter gun control have higher crime rates you might have something.

Go ahead.

My speculation is based on personal experience. I was held up at gunpoint, and shot at, in a country with much stricter gun laws than yours .... with an illegal weapon no less. I'll wager on that versus any biased statistics you care to produce.


By that logic we should trust them to drive any speed they want, make explosive factories in their homes, buy missile launchers at convenience stores, explode grenades in the parks, have all drugs legal, and perform surgery without a license.

Either we trust them or not right?

That how your country was born, sunshine. You'd do well to remember that.
 

Professur

Well-Known Member
Spike, I enjoyed 2 fan-fucking-tastic 4th of Julys at Catocom's in Georgia. In Ga, it's illegal to sell fireworks that propel an explosive into the air. Cat drove a couple of hours and bought those exact fireworks in SC. I bought some as well, on my way inbound. His brother in law, cousins, everyone did. Fired them off in a show that lasted forever. Fired them off safely, and everyone had a good time. Noone was hurt. Just like 99% of anyone else. But the good State of Georgia limits 100% of it's population because maybe one or two morons who (according to evolution) shouldn't even be part of the gene pool ...might do something stupid with them.
 

spike

New Member
My speculation is based on personal experience. I was held up at gunpoint, and shot at, in a country with much stricter gun laws than yours .... with an illegal weapon no less. I'll wager on that versus any biased statistics you care to produce.

Oh, one single biased account versus loads of data you label biased without any proof. Very smart.

That how your country was born, sunshine. You'd do well to remember that.

Never heard about my country being born with missile launchers at convenience stores but that's interesting.
 

spike

New Member
Fired them off safely, and everyone had a good time. Noone was hurt. Just like 99% of anyone else. But the good State of Georgia limits 100% of it's population because maybe one or two morons who (according to evolution) shouldn't even be part of the gene pool ...might do something stupid with them.

Yeah, only one or two people get hurt with fireworks every year. Glad to see you guys enjoyed breaking the law though as if it didn't apply to you. Seems a little hypocritical considering you're previous stance on speed limits but OK.

I'm sure some unlicensed surgery goes fine also. You want we should eliminate that requirement too?
 

Professur

Well-Known Member
Yeah, only one or two people get hurt with fireworks every year. Glad to see you guys enjoyed breaking the law though as if it didn't apply to you. Seems a little hypocritical considering you're previous stance on speed limits but OK.


Try again. What law did we break?



I'm sure some unlicensed surgery goes fine also. You want we should eliminate that requirement too?

There's licenses for surgery? I thought it was the surgeon that was licensed, not the surgery.
 
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