Your toilet, your light bulbs, and now ... your TV?

[Altron]

Ok, so we already have a tax on how far you drive (toll roads, toll bridges and tunnels)

And we already have a tax on how much gas you use

So WTF do we need another tax for?

Again, you're blatantly making the assumption that everyone drives the exact same mileage. If one car gets better mileage, but is driven more, so that the total fuel consumption is the same, are they not making the same amount of pollution?

Maybe that isn't an issue in some parts of the country, but it is here. In the NY/NJ suburbs, many people use trains and other public transit, and their car mainly is a night/weekend car. You remember my friend Xilron from NY? His dad used to have a '98 Dodge Avenger with 40,000 miles on it. This was in 2007. Every day, he drove it 1 mile to the train station, then took the train into Manhattan. That's very common there. Xilron's dad likes cars, so if he wanted to buy a V8, he would get taxed like crazy, even though he's putting such low miles on it.

 

[randomJACKASS]

We probably don't need yet another tax. Thing is though, and I am sure you've learned about this by now, though your idealism betrays you, is that life just ain't fair. We can try our best and be fair as we can as a nation and a society, and that's a good ideal, but in the final analysis, life just ain't fucking fair. You can bash your head against the was in denial of that fact, all your life if you so choose, or you can come to just accept that, that is the way it is, and work withing that frame work, and likely be a lot more effective because of it.

 

[MrBishop]

Again, you're blatantly making the assumption that everyone drives the exact same mileage. If one car gets better mileage, but is driven more, so that the total fuel consumption is the same, are they not making the same amount of pollution?

Actually...the argument isn't person A vs Person B - it's Person A in car Y vs the SAME Person A in car X.

Person A drives the same distance as he always did...
If he chooses to do it in an inefficient car...he gets dinged.
If he chooses to do it in a fuel-efficient car, he gets rewarded.

 

[Inkara1]

there's lots of overly aggressive dickheads in them prius mobiles around here. they're compensating for driving such a sissycar. yeah, like you're going to out-accelerate my petrol-sucking v6, stinksuckers. just go back to your yurt and stay there.

Every time I'm doing 75 on the freeway and get passed by a Prius, I can't help but wonder what gas mileage it's getting.

 

[spike]

So WTF do we need another tax for?

Do discourage people from driving gas guzzling vehicles.

Again, you're blatantly making the assumption that everyone drives the exact same mileage.

Nowhere did I make that assumption.

If one car gets better mileage, but is driven more, so that the total fuel consumption is the same, are they not making the same amount of pollution?

Without tracking mileage there's no way to tell which is driven more. Like I said, good luck getting people to allow their mileage to be tracked by the government and not roll back their odometers.

 

[spike]

Actually...the argument isn't person A vs Person B - it's Person A in car Y vs the SAME Person A in car X.

Person A drives the same distance as he always did...
If he chooses to do it in an inefficient car...he gets dinged.
If he chooses to do it in a fuel-efficient car, he gets rewarded.

 

[randomJACKASS]

....Without tracking mileage there's no way to tell which is driven more. Like I said, good luck getting people to allow their mileage to be tracked by the government and not roll back their odometers.

Yeah Altron, how would you like the government to install fuel consumption meters in your car when it's made, then everything would be fair right? While they are at it they can install a GPS and a remote "off switch" so those pesky criminals can no longer lead the police on car chances and perhaps get away. Hell they could even monitor who gets in the car and what you talk about inside and have a computer that responds to certain key worlds so they know when to listen in and catch criminal activity before it starts, hell then it would be fair wouldn't it?

 

[Altron]

The gas tax is already charging people for driving "gas guzzlers". There's no reason for an extra tax.

And I have never suggested any sort of mileage tax or mileage tracking things. I don't know where you guys are getting that info from.

Right now we have registration costs for owning a car. We have tolls for driving the car. We have a gas tax for using gas. All of the bases are covered.

If they want to make a gas guzzler tax, fine, but then repeal the tax on a gallon of gasoline. They're taxing the same product twice.

 

[Cerise]

Das Volkswagen!

 

[Inkara1]

How much does a VW bus pollute when it catches fire, especially with that magnesium block?

 

[2minkey]

... and there are few things more annoying than following a slo-poke VW bus on hilly central coast roads...

well, other than following an even slower RV.

 

[Inkara1]

Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt for both.

There used to be an "eclectic" radio station around here called K-Otter (KOTR 94.9). The station owned a VW bus with the station colors and logo on it and twice had to replace it because VW buses tend to catch fire. Of course, KPIG (107 oink 5) out of Freedom (by Santa Cruz) bought it, so there's no more K-Otter.

 

[spike]

The gas tax is already charging people for driving "gas guzzlers". There's no reason for an extra tax.

Yes, it's intentionally buying a car that is designed to use far more of the nations resources than another car.

And I have never suggested any sort of mileage tax or mileage tracking things. I don't know where you guys are getting that info from.

Hey Altron, when you said "Take the emissions per mile, and multiply it by the number of miles you drive. Charge a tax based on that." how exactly did you expect to get "the number of miles you drive" without tracking mileage and how would that not be a mileage tax?

 

[valkyrie]

Yeah Altron, how would you like the government to install fuel consumption meters in your car when it's made, then everything would be fair right? While they are at it they can install a GPS and a remote "off switch" so those pesky criminals can no longer lead the police on car chances and perhaps get away. Hell they could even monitor who gets in the car and what you talk about inside and have a computer that responds to certain key worlds so they know when to listen in and catch criminal activity before it starts, hell then it would be fair wouldn't it?

I hope you're joking!
Otherwise... you need a smack.

 

[Professur]

Val, you're not so naive as to believe that it's all that far off, are ya? They're already using the airbag black box as justification for speeding fines after an accident.

Do discourage people from driving gas guzzling vehicles.

It should be noted, however, that many of todays new bigger engines actually exceed the mileage of many smaller cars.

 

[randomJACKASS]

I was kidding but that remote off switch is a very real thing they are trying to do, although I can't remember where I heard about it.

 

[Professur]

Anyone heard of .. Onstar? Get into an accident and deploy the airbag, and a signal is sent to HQ. Don't respond to their attendant, and they dispatch local 911 service to your GPS location. They initiate communications from their end. No great challenge to hack that system. Even if you don't pay for next year's supscription, the equipment on your end is still live and active. They can even pop your locks to help DEA officials plant evidence without leaving a mark on your car.

 

[Cerise]

Why do the masses need something that will go over 75 mph? That's the law in every state, isn't it??

And when you gotta carry more than 4 citizens:

 

[jimpeel]

God damn it, now here even Jim is WRONG! I DEMAND the freedom to buy a vehicle that has no PCV valve (another part to by when it breaks). I DEMAND the right to a vehicle that spits ALL of it's emissions out of the tailpipe.

Simply buy a vehicle that was manufactured prior to 1967 and has never been registered in CA.

 

[jimpeel]

Now you're just being obtuse and making conservatives look bad. Also, I'm very familiar with how cars work, so feel free to stop patronizing me. kthnx.

You yourself said any time you limit choice, you limit freedom. The PCV valve adds cost compared to the road draft tube, both initially and in maintenance. Requiring a large TV to be Energy Star-compliant adds cost initially (although not in maintenance). The driver of the car won't notice the difference between an engine with a PCV valve and an engine with a road draft tube. The watcher of the TV won't notice a difference between an Energy Star TV and a non-Energy Star TV. An engine with a PCV valve routes the crankcase gases into the combustion chamber, where they are burned, resulting in improved emissions and thus less smog. An Energy Star-compliant TV uses less electricity, thus making the power plant burn a little less coal. But Energy Star adds cost to the item, and a PCV valve adds cost to a car. Because the PCV valve is mandatory, you're forced by law to pay more for your car.

Therefore, if you're against requiring a large TV to be more energy efficient, then you MUST be against mandatory PCV valves. Both add cost, both make the product more environmentally-friendly and both make no difference how the product works to the end user. There is no backing your way out of that one.

One should have the freedom to choose whatever they want, regardless of the cost of purchase or operation, without constraint. Will we soon be like Britain where you have to pay a tax to own and operate a television set? How much control are you willing to give to the government?

By the way, pollution controls have been ruled by the SCotUS as being the purview of the Congress because of the interstate commerce clause. It seems that because the pollution can traverse across state lines it is "commerce" and is applicable to the interstate commerce clause.

I doubt seriously that they would find the same of large screen TVs.

Nice try, though.