Age caught up

Gonz

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
NEW YORK — A British philosophy professor who has been a leading champion of atheism for more than five decades has changed his mind. He now believes in God — more or less — based on scientific evidence, and says so on a video released yesterday.

Antony Flew, 81, has concluded that some sort of intelligence or first cause must have created the universe. A super-intelligence is the only good explanation for the origin of life and the complexity of nature, Flew said from England.

Flew said he's best labeled a deist like Thomas Jefferson, whose God was not actively involved in people's lives.
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Seattle Times
 
My 10 year old today said he'd like to be a philosopher cause you get paid money to just sit around and talk about stuff like making up legends about how the world was created. I thought that was pretty good thinking on his part. :lloyd:
 
This is not a religious experience. It sounds like he's come to a greater understanding of physics/philosophy and has come to the conclusion that there must be a god. Once the epiphany comes that it is physically impossible to have both "will" and an "equal and opposite reaction", it tends to shake a person at their foundations.
 
The poor old bastard is senile
and getting religion before he 'meets his maker' Lol
 
The proto mongrel fight or flight fear reflex sprung up on him and is making him spew out psuedo intellectual CYA. yawn.
 
I stilll cannot envision how life can be possible without god. It simply does not seem plausable to me that a "will" can have any place in a universe that follows the laws of physics. Chaos does not exist in a universe where every action has an equal and opposite reaction. The two statements cannot both be true. If the simple law "every action has an equal and opposite reaction" is true, then the universe is predictable. From the simple, bouncing a ball off a wall and predicting where its next couple of bounces will take it, to the complex task of predicting what a person will do next. After all we are a part of the universe are we not? Our bodies/minds/thoughts are nothing more than molecules & energy that follow the basic laws of physics. In which case a "will" is simply not possible. I personally cannot accept the idea that we have no will and are simply observing our lives from a first hand perspective. I think it's clear that if you understand this it must be one way or the other.
 
when you say "will" are you speaking of free will? And why is it that cant be part of the over all equation exactly?
 
Thulsa Doom said:
when you say "will" are you speaking of free will? And why is it that cant be part of the over all equation exactly?
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Yes free will. Basically the ability to control our actions/thoughts.

We throw a ball at a wall and we can predict in a general way where it's going on the next few bounces because the universe is predictable. Our brain does the math and can calculate general speed & direction along with the texture of the ball and figure out where it's going. Were the universe chaotic we could never prediict the outcome of this event. Now we are limited in our mathmatical capacity so we can only do this to a certain extent. Suppose we have infinite mathmatical ability so that we can calculate trillions of Molecules at once. Observing then a human if we are nothing but physical matter that is subject to the laws of physics shouldn't we be able to predict every single action a person will take? After all the molecules in our body are already in motion. Every single molecule and portion of energy are subject the the laws of momentum & inertia etc. Are they not? If you throw a ball straight down at the ground it must bounce up, it cannot bounce left or right as according to the laws of physics/math its angle, momentum etc, has already determined its outcome. Why would a life form be any different than the rest of the universe unless there is something beyond the physical realm to explain this? The only other explanation is that truly we are nothing more than observers in the universe.
 
HeXp£Øi± said:
Suppose we have infinite mathmatical ability so that we can calculate trillions of Molecules at once. Observing then a human if we are nothing but physical matter that is subject to the laws of physics shouldn't we be able to predict every single action a person will take?
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and how do you come to your conclusion that we couldnt? if we could plug every conceivable aspect of the universe from birth to present into a super computer capable of such calculations then maybe the entire future history of the universe could be predicted down to the last atom. for now we have certain forms of mathematics that do a pretty damn good job of predicting chaotic situation like weather and human behavior. "free will" is a confined aray of possibilities. you are treating it as a completely random completely uninfluentiable phenomenon. it doesnt work that way. free will is largely an illusion. free will is confined by genetics and immediate circumstances. this can be approached with prediction tools.
 
Thulsa Doom said:
and how do you come to your conclusion that we couldnt? if we could plug every conceivable aspect of the universe from birth to present into a super computer capable of such calculations then maybe the entire future history of the universe could be predicted down to the last atom. for now we have certain forms of mathematics that do a pretty damn good job of predicting chaotic situation like weather and human behavior. "free will" is a confined aray of possibilities. you are treating it as a completely random completely uninfluentiable phenomenon. it doesnt work that way. free will is largely an illusion. free will is confined by genetics and immediate circumstances. this can be approached with prediction tools.
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It's either predictable or it's not. It cannot be "mostly predictable". Chaos is an illusion. From the beginning of modern science we have proven time and time again that chaos is mearly a lack of understanding of complex events. Weather and human behavior are not chaotic they are however extremely complex. It sounds like you are inclined to believe that "will" is an illusion. This position i can accept completely. I'm not saying that we'll never be able to predict the future. The premise of my statement is that physics & mathmatics, as we know them today, simply do not account for "will" playing any part in the process of the universe and have no scientific basis.
 
Free will doesn't matter. We are still bound by our physical & mental limitations. Our turning right or left is irrelevent to the whole.
 
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