Conservatives challenging Patriot act?

markjs

Banned
Conservative Backlash
Provisions of ‘Patriot II’ Draft Worry Those on Right

By Dean Schabner



March 12 — The opposite ends of the political spectrum are coming together over the war on terror, but not in the way Attorney General John Ashcroft may have wanted.


Some conservative groups are finding common ground with organizations such as the American Civil Liberties Union and the Bill of Rights Defense Committee, expressing concerns about the effect that the USA Patriot Act and a possible follow-up law, the Domestic Security Enhancement Act, could have on civil liberties.
Liberal critics have directed much of their worry at what they saw as an attack on immigrants' rights in the Patriot Act, the massive measure that was passed as the country was reeling from the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks.

More than 60 towns, cities and counties around the country have passed resolutions criticizing the act, some going so far as to instruct municipal employees — including police — not to assist federal agents in investigations that they believe violate the Constitution.

Now, right-leaning groups such as the American Conservative Union, the Eagle Forum and Gun Owners of America say they are concerned that American citizens could also be victimized by what they say are unconstitutional law enforcement powers allowed by the Patriot and the potential enhancement act.

The heart of the issue, according to conservatives, liberals and constitutional scholars, is the effect that USA Patriot has already had on issues of probable cause and due process, and that both of those concepts would be further eroded if the so-called Patriot II were adopted as it appears in the draft form.

Freedom to Operate

According to what is in the draft, if adopted it would allow the Justice Department to wiretap a person for 15 days without a warrant; federal agents could secretly arrest people and provide no information to their family, the media or their attorney until charges are brought, no matter how long that took; and it would allow the government to strip Americans of their citizenship for even unknowingly helping a group that is connected to an organization deemed to be terrrorist.

It would also make it a crime for people subpoenaed in connection with an investigation being carried out under the Patriot Act to alert Congress to any possible abuses committed by federal agents.

There is also no "sunset provision," which constitutional scholars say removes the element of congressional oversight and means lawmakers would have no way of compelling the Justice Department to prove that the powers provided in the act have not been abused.

"There's no question the government has to have the tools to protect us from terror attacks and to prosecute those who want to harm us," ACU Executive Director Stephen Thayer said.

"But having said that, the American Conservative Union wants to be sure that Congress takes into account the civil liberties of the citizens and through their deliberations reaches the proper balance between law enforcement and protecting citizens' rights," he added.

Christopher Pyle, a former U.S. Army intelligence officer who served on the Church Committee, a Senate select committee that studied government intelligence gathering, put it a bit more forcefully.

"I don't think the Fourth Amendment exists anymore," said Pyle, a professor of politics at Mount Holyoke College, referring to the amendment that prohibits unreasonable search and seizure and requires probable cause for a search or arrest. "I think it's been buried by the Patriot Act and some of the court rulings that have been handed down. We need a requiem mass for the Fourth Amendment, because it's gone."

‘Adverse Effect on Conservatives’

Among the concerns Thayer said he has about the draft version of Patriot II are the broad expansion of surveillance and information-gathering powers, the granting of immunity to businesses and their personnel who provide information to anti-terrorism investigators even if the information is fraudulent, and the power to strip native-born Americans of their citizenship.

Michael Hammond, a consultant with Gun Owners of America, which has more than 200,000 members, echoed those concerns, and said that the vague definition given to the term "terrorist" is extremely troubling.

"We have some serious concerns and part of our concerns spring from the fact that some of our members are part of the so-called militia movement," Hammond said. "We're looking into whether some of these groups or even the NRA [National Rifle Association] could be designated terrorists by this or a future administration."

The group is consulting with other conservative organizations about USA Patriot and Patriot II, and meeting with conservative lawmakers to make sure they know how the groups feel about some of the provisions.

"We're going to make our case why basically suspending the Constitution could have an adverse effect on conservatives, either under this administration or under a future administration," he said.

Though the group was concerned about many of the provisions of USA Patriot, Hammond said they "didn't go ballistic" because they believed it was primarily focused on noncitizens.

"All of a sudden it became apparent that a lot of people could be made noncitizens," he said. "We're very concerned about that. The whole thing is Orwellian."

Denials of Enhancement

Pyle and other legal scholars, including a former Justice Department official, say the concerns are justified, especially if the Domestic Security Enhancement Act — a 120-page document that was allegedly leaked to the Center for Public Integrity, which posted it on its Web site — is a legitimate representation of the administration's aims.

The document surfaced after weeks of Justice Department denials that any follow-up to USA Patriot was in the works, and after it appeared the draft was downplayed as just that — a draft that was far from its final form.

"Department staff have not presented any final proposals to either the attorney general or the White House," Barbara Comstock, a Justice Department spokeswoman, said in a statement released after the draft appeared. "It would be premature to speculate on any future decisions, particularly ideas or proposals that are still being discussed at staff levels."

Sens. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., Russ Feingold, D-Wis., and other Democrats have been asking Justice Department officials to share their ideas on whether anti-terrorism statutes need to be expanded. Ashcroft was rebuked by Leahy and other senators during an appearance before the Senate Judiciary Committee last week for not being forthcoming.

"Somebody who reports directly to you lied … and this is not a good thing," Leahy said. "I think it shows a secretive process in developing this."

Ashcroft denied there is any final proposal for expanding law enforcement's anti-terrorism capabilities.

"I'm keenly aware that the administration cannot pass legislation," Ashcroft said. "Only members of Congress can pass legislation. It would be height of absurdity for me to have a secret matter I hope to make a law without telling Congress."

Undercutting Ashcroft

When Feingold told Ashcroft that it was important to consult with Congress, the attorney general said: "I don't believe that I should start to consult and defend things which I believe are indefensible or are not part of something I would seek to propose. Until I have something I think is appropriate, I don't know that I should engage in some sort of discussion."

Michael Greenberger, a professor at the University of Maryland School of Law and an official in the Justice Department during the Clinton administration, said the draft "has all the appearance of a document that has been worked over and over."

"It seriously undercuts any claim that the department wasn't working on an enhancement act," said Greenberger, who was counselor to Attorney General Janet Reno before being named the Justice Department's principal deputy associate attorney general. He currently directs the University of Maryland's Center for Health and Homeland Security in addition to teaching at the school.

While the enhancement act does in many parts seem to be an effort by the Justice Department to retroactively get the authority to do things they were not allowed to do under USA Patriot, not everything in Patriot II is there to increase law enforcement powers, Greenberger said.

For example, according to the draft, defendants in the supersecret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act courts would be entitled to a court-appointed lawyer, which is a positive change, he said. The lawyer, however, would have to pass a security screening, a requirement that has been criticized by the ACLU.

Supreme Court Challenge Still Far Off

Some of the aspects of USA Patriot could eventually be examined by the Supreme Court, particularly regarding the arrests of six people in Portland, Ore., who are accused of trying to aid al Qaeda, but that challenge is likely a long way off.

A U.S. District Court judge recently denied a defense motion to see the government's justification for phone taps and electronic surveillance on the six: Jeffrey Battle, October Lewis, Patrice Ford, Ahmed Bilal, Muhammad Bilal and Habis al Saoub. All but al Saoub are American citizens who were born in the United States.

The surveillance methods were approved by a secret court that was set up under FISA, which was passed in 1978 but had its powers greatly expanded under USA Patriot.

"These people being prosecuted are claiming that information against them was illegally obtained because their Fourth Amendment rights were violated," Greenberger said. "Those issues will eventually make their way to the Supreme Court."

Douglas Kmiec, the dean of Catholic University Law School and the Justice Department's head of the office of legal counsel from 1985 to 1989, said the concerns are largely unfounded, though he said there are legitimate questions about some of the language, such as the definition of terrorism.

"My feeling in general is that the Patriot Act as enacted was a well-tempered approach to the problems that we face," he said, noting that built into the act are oversight by Congress and so-called sunset clauses, which require that provisions of the act be reviewed after five years.

"That will force the Justice Department to prove that the powers have been used properly," Kmiec said.

Other scholars, though, say that as the senators complained last week, the Justice Department is already resisting providing Congress with the information that USA Patriot says it must give the lawmakers, and some say the indication from the draft of Patriot II is that the department wants to remove the requirement altogether.

A Fundamental Change?

The powers that would be granted under Patriot II as written in the draft would fundamentally change American society, say scholars and conservative critics of the measure, because the government would be allowed to carry out electronic searches of virtually all information available about an individual without having to show probable cause and without informing the individual that the investigation was being carried out.

"Should the government be allowed to use complex software to find patterns of spending or patterns of activities to find out if someone has been committing illegal acts if there is no probable cause in the first place?" asked Ronald Kahn, a professor of politics and law at Oberlin College. "Patriot I and Patriot II open the door to that, and that means that everybody in the country is under suspicion.

"When you take away the notion of probable cause, everyone is under suspicion," he said.

The only positive thing that many of the measures' opponents see is the breadth of the opposition itself, which they hope will make legislators realize that civil liberties must be protected.

ABC News
 
Have you actually read the law Mark? Not a synopsis or somebodys interpretation of it but the actual law. I have. It's less isidious than the RICO statutes.
 
I am muddling through it now. I am not an attorney so some of it isn't super clear. A lot of it is amendments to existing Law that would be very time consuming to read through it all. All I really know is anything that violates the 4th amendment is not a good thing. But I will read through this eventually. I also know there are republicans as well as democrats against the patriot act so that tells me something.
 
Police State
Posted Nov. 9, 2001
By Kelly Patricia O Meara


If the United States is at war against terrorism to preserve freedom, a new coalition of conservatives and liberals is asking, why is it doing so by wholesale abrogation of civil liberties? They cite the Halloween-week passage of the antiterrorism bill — a new law that carries the almost preposterously gimmicky title: "Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act" (USA PATRIOT Act). Critics both left and right are saying it not only strips Americans of fundamental rights but does little or nothing to secure the nation from terrorist attacks.

Rep. Ron Paul of Texas, one of only three Republican lawmakers to buck the House leadership and the Bush administration to vote against this legislation, is outraged not only by what is contained in the antiterrorism bill but also by the effort to stigmatize opponents. Paul tells Insight, "The insult is to call this a 'patriot bill' and suggest I'm not patriotic because I insisted upon finding out what is in it and voting no. I thought it was undermining the Constitution, so I didn't vote for it — and therefore I'm somehow not a patriot. That's insulting."

Paul confirms rumors circulating in Washington that this sweeping new law, with serious implications for each and every American, was not made available to members of Congress for review before the vote. "It's my understanding the bill wasn't printed before the vote — at least I couldn't get it. They played all kinds of games, kept the House in session all night, and it was a very complicated bill. Maybe a handful of staffers actually read it, but the bill definitely was not available to members before the vote."

And why would that be? "This is a very bad bill," explains Paul, "and I think the people who voted for it knew it and that's why they said, 'Well, we know it's bad, but we need it under these conditions.'" Meanwhile, efforts to obtain copies of the new law were stonewalled even by the committee that wrote it.

What is so bad about the new law? "Generally," says Paul, "the worst part of this so-called antiterrorism bill is the increased ability of the federal government to commit surveillance on all of us without proper search warrants." He is referring to Section 213 (Authority for Delaying Notice of the Execution of a Warrant), also known as the "sneak-and-peek" provision, which effectively allows police to avoid giving prior warning when searches of personal property are conducted. Before the USA PATRIOT Act, the government had to obtain a warrant and give notice to the person whose property was to be searched. With one vote by Congress and the sweep of the president's pen, say critics, the right of every American fully to be protected under the Fourth Amendment against unreasonable searches and seizures was abrogated.

The Fourth Amendment states: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated; and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

According to the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), which is joining with conservatives as critics of the legislation, the rationale for the Fourth Amendment protection always has been to provide the person targeted for search with the opportunity to "point out irregularities in the warrant, such as the fact that the police may be at the wrong address or that the warrant is limited to a search of a stolen car, so the police have no authority to be looking into dresser drawers." Likely bad scenarios involving the midnight knock at the door are not hard to imagine.

Paul, a strict constructionist (see Picture Profile, Sept. 3), has a pretty good idea of what Americans may anticipate. "I don't like the sneak-and-peek provision because you have to ask yourself what happens if the person is home, doesn't know that law enforcement is coming to search his home, hasn't a clue as to who's coming in unannounced … and he shoots them. This law clearly authorizes illegal search and seizure, and anyone who thinks of this as antiterrorism needs to consider its application to every American citizen."

The only independent in the House, Rep. Bernie Sanders from Vermont, couldn't support the bill for similar reasons: "I took an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States, and I'm concerned that voting for this legislation fundamentally violates that oath. And the contents of the legislation have not been subjected to serious hearings or searching examination."

Nadine Strossen, president of the ACLU and professor of law at New York University, tells Insight, "The sneak-and-peek provision is just one that will be challenged in the courts. We're not only talking about the sanctity of the home, but this includes searches of offices and other places. It is a violation of the Fourth Amendment and poses tremendous problems with due process. By not notifying someone about a search, they don't have the opportunity to raise a constitutional challenge to the search."

Even before the ink on the president's signature had dried, the FBI began to take advantage of the new search-and-seizure provisions. A handful of companies have reported visits from federal agents demanding private business records. C.L. "Butch" Otter (R-Idaho), another of the three GOP lawmakers who found the legislation unconstitutional, says he knew this provision would be a problem. "Section 215 authorizes the FBI to acquire any business records whatsoever by order of a secret U.S. court. The recipient of such a search order is forbidden from telling any person that he has received such a request. This is a violation of the First Amendment right to free speech and the Fourth Amendment protection of private property."


Otter added that "some of these provisions place more power in the hands of law enforcement than our Founding Fathers could have dreamt and severely compromises the civil liberties of law-abiding Americans. This bill, while crafted with good intentions, is rife with constitutional infringements I could not support."

Like most who actually have read and analyzed the new law, Strossen disagrees with several provisions not only because they appear to her to be unconstitutional but also because the sweeping changes it codifies have little or nothing to do with fighting terrorism. "There is no connection," insists Strossen, "between the Sept. 11 attacks and what is in this legislation. Most of the provisions relate not just to terrorist crimes but to criminal activity generally. This happened, too, with the 1996 antiterrorism legislation where most of the surveillance laws have been used for drug enforcement, gambling and prostitution."

"I like to refer to this legislation," continues Strossen, "as the 'so-called antiterrorism law,' because on its face the provisions are written to deal with any crime, and the definition of terrorism under the new law is so severely broad that it applies far beyond what most people think of as terrorism." A similar propensity of governments to slide down the slippery slope recently was reported in England by The Guardian newspaper. Under a law passed last year by the British Parliament, investigators can get information from Internet-service providers about their subscribers without a warrant. Supposedly an antiterrorist measure, the British law will be applied to minor crimes, tax collection and public-health purposes.

Under the USA PATRIOT Act in this country, Section 802 defines domestic terrorism as engaging in "activity that involves acts dangerous to human life that violate the laws of the United States or any state and appear to be intended: (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination or kidnapping."

The ACLU has posted on its Website, www.aclu.org, a comprehensive list of the provisions and summarizes the increased powers for federal spying. The following are a sample of some of the changes as a result of the so-called USA PATRIOT Act. The legislation:


minimizes judicial supervision of federal telephone and Internet surveillance by law-enforcement authorities.


expands the ability of the government to conduct secret searches.


gives the attorney general and the secretary of state the power to designate domestic groups as terrorist organizations and deport any noncitizen who belongs to them.


grants the FBI broad access to sensitive business records about individuals without having to show evidence of a crime.


leads to large-scale investigations of American citizens for "intelligence" purposes.


More specifically, Section 203 (Authority to Share Criminal Investigative Information) allows information gathered in criminal proceedings to be shared with intelligence agencies, including but not limited to the CIA — in effect, say critics, creating a political secret police. No court order is necessary for law enforcement to provide untested information gleaned from otherwise secret grand-jury proceedings, and the information is not limited to the person being investigated.

Furthermore, this section allows law enforcement to share intercepted telephone and Internet conversations with intelligence agencies. No court order is necessary to authorize the sharing of this information, and the CIA is not prohibited from giving this information to foreign-intelligence operations — in effect, say critics, creating an international political secret police.

According to Strossen, "The concern here is about the third branch of government. One of the overarching problems that pervades so many of these provisions is reduction of the role of judicial oversight. The executive branch is running roughshod over both of the other branches of government. I find it very bothersome that the government is going to have more widespread access to e-mail and Websites and that information can be shared with other law-enforcement and even intelligence agencies. So, again, we're going to have the CIA in the business of spying on Americans — something that certainly hasn't gone on since the 1970s."

Strossen is referring to the illegal investigations of thousands of Americans under Operation CHAOS, spying carried out by the CIA and National Security Agency against U.S. activists and opponents of the war in Southeast Asia.

Nor do the invasion-of-privacy provisions of the new law end with law enforcement illegally searching homes and offices, say critics. Under Section 216 of the USA PATRIOT Act (Modification of Authorities Relating to Use of Pen Registers and Trap and Trace Devices), investigators freely can obtain access to "dialing, routing and signaling information." While the bill provides no definition of "dialing, routing and signaling information," the ACLU says this means they even would "apply law-enforcement efforts to determine what Websites a person visits." The police need only certify the information they are in search of is "relevant to an ongoing criminal investigation."

This does not meet probable-cause standards — that a crime has occurred, is occurring or will occur. Furthermore, regardless of whether a judge believes the request is without merit, the order must be given to the requesting law-enforcement agency, a veritable rubber stamp and potential carte blanche for fishing exhibitions.

Additionally, under Section 216, law enforcement now will have unbridled access to Internet communications. The contents of e-mail messages are supposed to be separated from the e-mail addresses, which presumably is what interests law enforcement. To conduct this process of separation, however, Congress is relying on the FBI to separate the content from the addresses and disregard the communications.

In other words, the presumption is that law enforcement is only interested in who is being communicated with and not what is said, which critics say is unlikely. Citing political implications they note this is the same FBI that during the Clinton administration could not adequately explain how hundreds of personal FBI files of Clinton political opponents found their way from the FBI to the Clinton White House.

And these are just a few of the provisions and problems. While critics doubt it will help in the tracking of would-be terrorists, the certainty is that homes and places of business will be searched without prior notice. And telephone and Internet communications will be recorded and shared among law-enforcement and intelligence agencies, all in the name of making America safe from terrorism.

Strossen understands the desire of lawmakers to respond forcefully to the Sept. 11 attacks but complains that this is more of the same old same old. "Government has the tendency," she explains, "to want to proliferate during times of crisis, and that's why we have to constantly fight against it. It's a natural impulse and, in many ways, I don't fault it. In some ways they're just doing their job by aggressively seeking as much law-enforcement power as possible, but that's why we have checks and balances in our system of government, and that's why I'm upset that Congress just rolled and played dead on this one."

Paul agrees: "This legislation wouldn't have made any difference in stopping the Sept. 11 attacks," he says. "Therefore, giving up our freedoms to get more security when they can't prove it will do so makes no sense. I seriously believe this is a violation of our liberties. After all, a lot of this stuff in the bill has to do with finances, search warrants and arrests."

For the most part, continues Paul, "our rights have been eroded as much by our courts as they have been by Congress. Whether it's Congress being willing to give up its prerogatives on just about everything to deliver them to an administration that develops new and bigger agencies, or whether it's the courts, there's not enough wariness of the slippery slope and insufficient respect and love of liberty."

What does Paul believe the nation's Founding Fathers would think of this law? "Our forefathers would think it's time for a revolution. This is why they revolted in the first place." Says Paul with a laugh, "They revolted against much more mild oppression."

Kelly Patricia O'Meara is an investigative reporter for Insight.

Insight On The News
 
So now you're against government meddling in your private affairs? The right to bear arms, you have problems with. The right to do, legally, what one pleases on their own property, you have problems with, but unwarranted search and seizure upsets you? Don't see how it could, given that you had problems with the first 2 I mentioned...Now...since you have no problems with restrictions to private property and gun ownership, how can you have problems with unwarranted search and siezure? It's just another step in the slow process of denying you what the bill of rights guarantees...;)
 
When did I ever come out against doing what you want with your property? I am for great care being taken in who should own what guns, but I am not anti gun.
 
markjs said:
When did I ever come out against doing what you want with your property? I am for great care being taken in who should own what guns, but I am not anti gun.

READ THE CONSTITUTION & BILL OF RIGHTS!!
Amendment II

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
 
markjs said:
So give every felon a gun.....That's the kind of world I want to live in!


That's almost the world you live in now because folks on the left have made it a chore to purchase a firearm for the average law-abiding citizen. If I had the wont to purchase a gun illegally, I could do it the same day I return to the states, and nobody would care. If I get caught with it, then there could be trouble, but most people who stay away from such illegalities don't get bothered. Criminals, OTOH, don't really care about legalities...that's why they are criminals. ;)
 
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