death

tank girl

New Member
:idea: Idle child posted a thread about memento mori which were featured in the Nicole Kidman film "The Others" which got me thinking about how, as a culture, the idea of 'death' and 'the dead' seems to have reached a point of social fixation - in many ways loosening up the previously "taboo" subject in many ways, especially in the media. Well, here in N.Z it seems that way, but it looks as though we're not quite as 'conservative' as many parts of the U.S...???

In fact, i think the media has played a big part in this phenomenon, but thats my theory. Anyway, there are all sorts of 'death' programmes on television now, from CSI to (my personal favourite) "Six feet under"...(yeah I know they're american programmes and all)... I was wondering what your opinions are on this 'turnaround', if you like, in attitudes and perspectives towards death compared to anything from 20 - 40 years ago. (you older members might have stories to tell???)

As I said, I believe the media has a lot to do with it, but I was also thinking that since maybe (sorta like the sexual revolution) it is a 'death revolution' of sorts, an explosion of coverage on dead 'stuff' and it is now becomming more okay to think and talk openly about it.

What do you think? any thoughts/opinions/theories/ideas/stories?

:grim: :angel2:
 
Well, here in N.Z it seems that way, but it looks as though we're not quite as 'conservative' as many parts of the U.S...???

Strange isn't it, us over here in NZ are 24 hours ahead of the Americans in time, yet still so backwards we could win an asshole catching compitition.
As for media etc finally catching up, death, sex and mutations always have and always will continue to grab the ratings..... not that I watch TV, it's all americanised and over sensationalised.
 
The fear and loathing of death is pretty much a modern phenomenon.

As little as 40 years ago, in this country at least, stronger religious conviction, lack of money and tradition... meant that it was common for family members to "lie in state" in the front room of the house for others to pay their respects... children would have happily played around the coffin... knowing full well what the "box" contained!It would have been the responsibility of the family, the wife of the husband to "prepare the body"... there was a lot of physical contact with the dead.

Families were larger and were not spread out across countires and continents... the chances that you would be faced with the realities of death at a younger age were greater.

Going further back post and pre-war... most families, especially those in the country, would slaughter their own livestock and poultry... and in the towns slaughtering was done in the main on a butcher's premesis or in a central abetoir (sp) close to homes!

I also think the stronger belief in the after life and "the soul" meant that the body was "less important" perhaps...

Basically we have become squeemish and unecessarily disturbed by death as it has now all been tidy away from view... programmes such as CSI and Sillent Witness (here in Blighty) still make the thoughts of death and dead bodies as a "removed" experience best left to the professionals... :shrug:
 
Media, huh? It's the current "fad", and will likely pass for something else soon. It started really with Patricia Cornwell novels, and it wasn't long before CSI, and a plethora of other "death" related shows took over. Not that it's a new issue (detective shows like Law & Order have been around for donkey's years), but forensics is pretty popular right now - to the point that it's been romanticised. :rolleyes:
 
maybe because death is one of the few things we can't completely control and that makes it intriguing to modern minds. or maybe because it was once considered gauche to discuss the inner workings of death in mixed company and now it is not. :shrug:
 
If we hold birth in a special reverence,
why not death?
Each should be celebrated and treated with respect?
 
I have not read everything in this thread, but my opinion is that it has become more accepted (in the US anyway) for two reasons:

1) News Media. Everyone that works for a news program will tell you that death (more so with murders or other unnatural deaths) or the possiblity of death (the psycho in Granby CO with the bulldozer) will get higher ratings anyday than any other form of news. This has desensitized (sp) most people from the shock of death related matters that was more common in the past.

2) It is one way that people come to accept death, or at least try to and think they have. Watching shows like SIx Feet and Under, and a personal favorite, Dead Like Me, gives people the idea that maybe they won't understand death and it's okay. It can also give people the idea that do infact understand death. The people that make these shows have a morbid sense of humor, or are dealing with thier own instance of death. This could be very well they are coping.
 
Basically we have become squeemish and unecessarily disturbed by death as it has now all been tidy away from view... programmes such as CSI and Sillent Witness (here in Blighty) still make the thoughts of death and dead bodies as a "removed" experience best left to the professionals...

I agree it is definately a modern phenomenon...but I was thinking that as a phenomenon the whole squemish thing is definately undone and we're more accepting of death BECAUSE people have become less conservative and more accepting about death, especially children tofay and younger generations wheras fifty years ago children were 'kept away' from funerals - even of their own parents... and told such things that they had "gone to sleep"..my thought was that by having death on our t.v screens every night was that we've become desensitised as well as used to using black humour as a sort of coping mechanism...as princesslissa said...(thanks, very good points by the way..what I was trying to get at anyhow...I think :)
 
We have discussed this in a college class I took before the accident and I am surprised that I remembered that much of it. People were arguing with me about the media so I asked them how often they watched the news. Tehy told me once in a while. Well, no wonder they have no idea what is on the news.

I also feel (but could be wrong) that the explotation of death on news media is mostly at large in America. That is all we ever hear about here. It may be due to higher numbers of death and murders. A news crew here did a story about an elderly man that climbed a tree to get a little girl's kitten down when he was not really in the shape to be doing so and his story got bumped out that night because some butthole reporter did yet ANOTHER story on a Columbine family and how they have been coping the last few years. The family was not even in the story. There was a picture of thier home and reports of where they had been going during the day and such. How stupid is that? Death, long done and over, an incident our community is trying to leave in the past and move on with our lives, is brought up again instead of a wonderful story about kindness. I was so angry about that. Lots of people in my neighborhood wrote letters about it once the word got out.
 
freako104 said:
I guess people are not as scared of death for various reasons nowadays.
Funny, I think people in America are more afraid of dying than they ever have been. :shrug:
 
chcr said:
Funny, I think people in America are more afraid of dying than they ever have been. :shrug:


I do too. Fear is what drives the US, in everything. As a whole, the country fears death from terrorists, the rappist walking around, the guns that can be bought on the black market, children with not-so-great parents, inner cities, and even homless people. I think we have taken the portrait of a few wackos walking the street and applied it to everyone that is a stranger.
 
PrincessLissa said:
I do too. Fear is what drives the US, in everything. As a whole, the country fears death from terrorists, the rappist walking around, the guns that can be bought on the black market, children with not-so-great parents, inner cities, and even homless people. I think we have taken the portrait of a few wackos walking the street and applied it to everyone that is a stranger.
Good point, but that isn't what I meant. I mean people, at the end of their lives (short or long) doing anything and everything to get a few more days. I prefer quality to quantity, but I think most people are just the opposite.
 
this has been a good thread so far, I'm pleased :) you guys have come upt with some pretty good perspectives on things... PrincessLissa, I feel that the exploitation of death and sex in the media are repululsive, I'm studying media at university and some of the things we've covered are the way news media revolves around -basically- a soap-opera format - really ! its all sex, death, tragedy, mayhem, every extreme as long as you can get people watching and therefore the ratings up...its gross, and its making us so de-sensitised as far as war and stuff is concerned. Think of all the other stuff that is happening out there - and all they can think of is war and violence and sensation because that is what gets the ratings - and therefore the advertising revenue up. I think the medis -especially the news media is doing us a great injustice - because it is making us think that some things are more important than other things when they are not - or equal - there is so much going on and all they focus on is what is going to make them money, full stop, They don't care if they are leaving out the vital details, the evidence of the other side of the story, all they want is to make money and let usbelieve that they are caring for us and giving us unbiased reportage!!! yeah right. (though i don';t think there can ever be such thing as an equal unbiased - objective manner of repoting by any means) The same goes for movies, have you noticed how often blockbusters focus on the whole "good-guys killing the bad guys theme" with all the violence, torture, bloodshed, etc but hardly any of the natural beautiful, human things.....like pure, unsensationalised sexuality! and natural, human relationships! and people who aren't - dare-I-say-it plastic steroptypical types! anything is dramatic or sensationalised and underpinned with a fatal death-wish...as if thats all our culture is based upon, a drive to kill each other for the good of "mankind"....but that is, I admit, getting side-tracked a bit. But its a good point, we are so de-sensitised today than we have ever been... is this a good thing or a bad thing? what are we turning into? :confused:

I just feel there is a big opening oput there for someone to depict real life as it really is! and I don't believe america is all murders and violence, but that is all the media depicts! I'm sure the majority of us are good-natured, reasonable, realistic people with goalsd and dreams and highs and lows and flaws like everyone else, and the REAL life is definately left out of stuff in favour of the sensatoinal.

As far as death is concerned, as opposed to the "war in Iraq" hostage footage or the war-fare etc, decent programmes I feel generally reflect a more willing "feeling" if you like, to be freer towards discussing death and issues around death...despite the fact it might be scary - I feel we're easing in towards a newer, ready acceptance more willing to learn and celebrate death rather than cloak it in stiff, formal "undiscussed" misery, which I feel is interesting, as a development, as far as society and culture goes at least. Though It is true that death as a ';"taboo" is only a modern thing, its kinda cool that we;re getting back to recognising the valuable nature of death in our lives as a learning and life-building experience (despite the unrealistic crap bombarded on us from News t.V) :alienhuh:
 
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