Effects

Gonz

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
Since I've been so busy at work I've not had time to keep up my arguments here as well as I'd like. WMDs-found or not? Bush-liar or misinformed? On & on it could go. While most of those debates are already raging, well, mildly smoldering is more accurate, there seems to have been a complete & utter disregard for the effects this war, good or bad, has had since it's official end.

Iran is on the verge of revolt. This was anticipated but it seems to be gathering steam faster than expected. I'd bet less than 6 months.

Syria is kissing up. They no longer want to be the outcasts of the middle east.

Saudi Arabia has cut off something like $100,000,000. that goes to terrorist organizations like Hamas. While I have serious reservations about this, it may be a start.

The PA/Hamas/Islamic Jihad have come to the table with Israel & are (well, mostly) cooperating in the cease fire. On the other side, Israel has slowed it's pursuit of these groups & has slightly softened it's stance. A beginning.

A not published poll by CBSNews apparently shows that 66% of polled Iraqis are glad we're there. I haven't seen it so it's hearsay. From what I have seen & heard it sounds much closer to the truth than the daily we're hated & should go home reports we are getting (A reporter today LEAD her story with, "No Americans were killed today...")

[edited to add]
N Korea is coming around.

The end may prove to justify the means.
 
Gonz said:
there seems to have been a complete & utter disregard for the effects this war, good or bad, has had
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this post shows a disregard, but not of both good and bad.
 
ive seen a few videos of some Iraqis who are glad were there but we still have soliders there who dont seem to be as welcome(they want out and have felt that they are wanted out of Iraq).every decision has its own consequences good or bad.
 
i noticed recently that the pa is having a hard time holding the ceasefire down. israel has slowed its removal of illegal settlements to a bare trickle and there is muttering that no matter what the palestinians bring to the table israel is not fulfilling its side of the bargain.
 
It amazes me how people keep expecting things to change in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
 
Expectations or hope?

There is no question where I stand on that issue but I still hope that it can/will settle into a peaceful coexistance. Until then, keep the cannons armed :shrug:
 
Hope is fine, Gonz. If you're more realistic, you'll be disappointed less often though.
 
i dont think either side ever will live up to the said road map to peace. theyre too busy hating and killing each other. i do have hope itll end. but im not holding my breath.
 
ris said:
i noticed recently that the pa is having a hard time holding the ceasefire down. israel has slowed its removal of illegal settlements to a bare trickle and there is muttering that no matter what the palestinians bring to the table israel is not fulfilling its side of the bargain.
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Ebb and flow, dude. Pa doesn't stop the attacks, so Israel doesn't fulfill it's end of the bargain, either. :shrug: What'd you expect? If the attacks stopped entirely and the Israeli's didn't do their part, then you'd have a good argument for their non-compliance.
 
Gonz said:
That's why you're here. I present the truth & you present the fiction :D
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You present one-sided hot air straight from Limbaugh and a blind faith in a sleazeball adminstration.

chcr said:
Hope is fine, Gonz. If you're more realistic, you'll be disappointed less often though.
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Exactly.
 
flavio said:
blind faith in a sleazeball adminstration.
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Maybe I'm wrong but I don't recall defending Dubya. Actions taken, yes.

Rush reads what I write for topics on his show, not the other way around.
 
I always love it when someone completely one-sided accuses someone else of being one-sided, when someone biased accuses someone else of being biased, etc. I thought it was a given that your beliefs make you biased in that direction. Why would you present "both sides" if you don't agree with one of them? Seems that's how pretty much everyone else on these forums operates. Oh well... just a random thought. You may now continue with the endless arguing. :)
 
Gato_Solo said:
Ebb and flow, dude. Pa doesn't stop the attacks, so Israel doesn't fulfill it's end of the bargain, either. :shrug: What'd you expect? If the attacks stopped entirely and the Israeli's didn't do their part, then you'd have a good argument for their non-compliance.
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there is no realistic way that all attacks can be brought to a halt, the pa did bring the three main groups to an agreed ceasefire for 3 months. it was hard-fought and difficult to achieve and most likely used a lot of the bargianing power that abbas has. what needs to been seen now is that israel is as geniuinely interested in putting up its side of the bargain and as quickly as possible.

if they don't start producing the goods in some of the areas that were part of the ceasefire agreement then a vital oppportunity will have been spurned. i think that the prisoner release stuff will be a tricky hurdle with figures promised and timescales of release set up, but the settlements are pretty straightforward and can be begun on without huge lead-in.
 
ris said:
there is no realistic way that all attacks can be brought to a halt, the pa did bring the three main groups to an agreed ceasefire for 3 months. it was hard-fought and difficult to achieve and most likely used a lot of the bargianing power that abbas has. what needs to been seen now is that israel is as geniuinely interested in putting up its side of the bargain and as quickly as possible.

if they don't start producing the goods in some of the areas that were part of the ceasefire agreement then a vital oppportunity will have been spurned. i think that the prisoner release stuff will be a tricky hurdle with figures promised and timescales of release set up, but the settlements are pretty straightforward and can be begun on without huge lead-in.
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True...but, then, the dismantling of settlements hasn't stopped, either. ;)
 
outside looking in said:
I always love it when someone completely one-sided accuses someone else of being one-sided, when someone biased accuses someone else of being biased, etc. I thought it was a given that your beliefs make you biased in that direction. Why would you present "both sides" if you don't agree with one of them? Seems that's how pretty much everyone else on these forums operates. Oh well... just a random thought. You may now continue with the endless arguing. :)
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i think its supposed to be less myopic to see other sides. to show the side an disagree with it.
 
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