Just desserts???

Gato_Solo

Gato_Solo

Out-freaking-standing OTC member
We finally have something which punishes those who steal (embezzle) from us in the millions, and somebody starts bitching about fairness in judgement? This ass has some nerve. It's not violence level. It's theft. Once you start greying out the definition, you no longer have law. Just compromise. :mad:
 
No, sentences for white-collar crimes aren't overstated. Sentences for violent crimes are understated.

He simply got it backwards.
 
HomeLAN said:
No, sentences for white-collar crimes aren't overstated. Sentences for violent crimes are understated.

He simply got it backwards.
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How can one justify the disparity between the two? Theft is theft, and crime is crime. One charge, one punishment. Anything else is just a justification for leniency.
 
lets see...bigger threat


fuck rapes and kills people and has no concience


bastard embezzles money.



hmm..... hmm........



maybe I am crazy. but I think the violent offender is a little worse. so I agree with HomeLAN. the violent offender just is understated.
 
freako104 said:
lets see...bigger threat


fuck rapes and kills people and has no concience


bastard embezzles money.



hmm..... hmm........



maybe I am crazy. but I think the violent offender is a little worse. so I agree with HomeLAN. the violent offender just is understated.
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Nope. Both have ultimately commited the same crime. The only difference is in the method of the crime. Besides...Rape and Murder are not theft, which is what is being discussed here. Example...

A man robs a bank and gets, at a minimum, 15 years. His maximum take can be approximately $100,000. Doesn't matter how he robs the bank. The bank is still robbed. Why does it matter if he used a gun or a pen? Justify your argument.
 
Once again, we don't disagree. However, if the guy with the gun is getting less time than the guy with the pen, raise the time for the guy with the gun, not the other way around.
 
HomeLAN said:
Once again, we don't disagree. However, if the guy with the gun is getting less time than the guy with the pen, raise the time for the guy with the gun, not the other way around.
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Ahhh...at least we agree on that. Equal crime gets equal time. Historically, though, it's usually been the other way around. The guy with the pen gives back 'X' amount of the money, get's 18-24 months and is free to walk the streets, while the guy with the gun gets 15-20 years. Give them both 15 years. If somebody is injured during the robbery because our gunman was trigger-happy, then you can add a charge of attempted murder. The gun, after all, didn't rob anybody, and the gun didn't shoot anybody...the guy did, so why is it that armed robbery is a seperate entity with a seperate sentencing structure? It's actually 2 different crimes. Robbery, and assault with a deadly weapon. Is it just to try them both at the same time, or is it laziness to lump them together?
 
Probably for the convenience of the prosecutor.

BTW, I'm whole-heartedly with you. Being a corporate accountant, I think these guys should be behind bars for a good, long time.
 
Robbing a bank with a pen is embezzelment

Robbing a bank with a gun is armed robbery

2 different crimes even though you both end up with the banks money.

Like murder and manslaughter you end up with a body either way but they are diffrent.


that said I believe in tougher sentences for white collar crime, and the sentencing should be on scale with how much was taken, and who was hurt (so enron would be 25 years to life)
 
Gato_Solo said:
Nope. Both have ultimately commited the same crime. The only difference is in the method of the crime. Besides...Rape and Murder are not theft, which is what is being discussed here. Example...

A man robs a bank and gets, at a minimum, 15 years. His maximum take can be approximately $100,000. Doesn't matter how he robs the bank. The bank is still robbed. Why does it matter if he used a gun or a pen? Justify your argument.
Click to expand...



although both could probably be used to kill someone a gun is more threatning and more likely to kill someone.
 
paul_valaru said:
Robbing a bank with a pen is embezzelment

Robbing a bank with a gun is armed robbery

2 different crimes even though you both end up with the banks money.

Like murder and manslaughter you end up with a body either way but they are diffrent.


that said I believe in tougher sentences for white collar crime, and the sentencing should be on scale with how much was taken, and who was hurt (so enron would be 25 years to life)
Click to expand...

Now you're justifying bank robbery by saying, because it was with a pen, it's less of a crime. Scale has nothing to do with it.

One more thing...no more minimum-security prisons. Armed robbery is, IMO, 2 crimes. Robbery, on par with embezzlement, and assault with a deadly weapon. 2 seperate crimes, PV, and they should have 2 seperate punishments...not the same punishment by calling it the same crime. As for your murder/manslaughter comparison, it doesn't work in this situation because murder and manslaughter are gauged by intent...not result. If I think you should die, get a gun/knife/baseball bat, and end your life, then it's murder. If I'm doing target-practice in my back-yard, in the middle of Montana, and you get shot because I'm not being careful, then it's manslaughter. Embezzlement and robbery both have the same intent...to take someone elses money. Murder and manslaughter do not.
 
Gato_Solo said:
Now you're justifying bank robbery by saying, because it was with a pen, it's less of a crime. Scale has nothing to do with it.

One more thing...no more minimum-security prisons. Armed robbery is, IMO, 2 crimes. Robbery, on par with embezzlement, and assault with a deadly weapon. 2 seperate crimes, PV, and they should have 2 seperate punishments...not the same punishment by calling it the same crime. As for your murder/manslaughter comparison, it doesn't work in this situation because murder and manslaughter are gauged by intent...not result. If I think you should die, get a gun/knife/baseball bat, and end your life, then it's murder. If I'm doing target-practice in my back-yard, in the middle of Montana, and you get shot because I'm not being careful, then it's manslaughter. Embezzlement and robbery both have the same intent...to take someone elses money. Murder and manslaughter do not.
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I'm saying the crime is seen diffrent by the law both are to steal money, so let's say you get 10 years for that (I know it's more like 3) the armed guy gets the extra years for endangering peoples lives.

not saying I agree with how things work, but that is what happens.

though I do beleive violent offenders deserve more punishment than white collar criminals, for the whole violence thing, but I do also beleive that stiffer punsihment have to be handed down to white collar criminals
 
paul_valaru said:
I'm saying the crime is seen diffrent by the law both are to steal money, so let's say you get 10 years for that (I know it's more like 3) the armed guy gets the extra years for endangering peoples lives.

not saying I agree with how things work, but that is what happens.

though I do beleive violent offenders deserve more punishment than white collar criminals, for the whole violence thing, but I do also beleive that stiffer punsihment have to be handed down to white collar criminals
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As I've said as well...just a slightly different way.

'Armed' Robbery and Robbery are just the exact same crime with the added twist of a deadly weapon being used in the former. The former is actually 2 crimes...1. Robbery and 2. Assault with a deadly weapon. One does not preclude the other, as you don't need a gun for robbery, and you don't need to rob somebody to assault them. Make it 2 crimes, one actually proven by the other, and hand down 2 consecutive sentences. The first, say 15 years for robbery, and the second, say 20 years for assault with a deadly weapon. By calling it 'Armed' robbery, and setting the punishment to be the median between robbery and assault is a bad idea, as it could actually infer that a gun not only makes robbery easier, but has the added benefit of giving you less time in jail. Now do you get my point?
 
Just find a small island and ship the lot of them off to it. Stop fucking coddling these antisocial bastards. They know the rules. Don't wanna live by them? Off you go.
 
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