Legislators questioning the benefits of ethanol

jimpeel

Well-Known Member
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,354350,00.html

With Food Costs Rising, Lawmakers Debate the Benefits of Ethanol
Tuesday, May 06, 2008

WASHINGTON — Just months ago, ethanol was the Holy Grail to energy independence and a "green fuel" that would help nudge the country away from climate changing fossil energy.

Democrats and Republicans cheered its benefits as Congress directed a fivefold increase in ethanol use as a motor fuel. President Bush called it key to his strategy to cut gasoline use by 20 percent by 2010.

But now with skyrocketing food costs -- even U.S. senators are complaining about seeing shocking prices at the supermarket -- and hunger spreading across the globe, some lawmakers are wondering if they made a mistake.

"Our enthusiasm for corn ethanol deserves a second look. That's all I'm saying, a second look," said Rep. Jane Harman, D-Calif., at a House hearing Tuesday where the impact of ethanol on soaring food costs was given a wide airing.

The dramatic reversal has stunned ethanol producers and its supporters in Washington as they have seen their product shift from being an object of praise to one of derision.

Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, one of the Senate's two working farmers and a longtime ethanol booster, said he finds it hard to believe that ethanol could be "clobbered the way it's being clobbered right now" over the issue of food costs. What does the cost of corn have to do with the price of wheat or rice, he is telling people.

The uproar over ethanol is clearly gaining momentum.

[more]
 
that would help nudge the country away from climate changing fossil energy

That's right folks, snake oil by any other name...

I wonder, do these pols know what's in the other 97% of ethanol, besides corn?
 
I'm actually encouraged. If corn does become very expensive the mass producers will move to something else to sweeten things or keep bread from sticking to pans and ovens which will make my grocery shopping a lot easier...but that's just me.
 
Seems like the cost of food is related to the cost of transporting food. With the daily rising gas prices the cost of your food is going to go up.
 
As well as non-edible items. Seems folks forget how shit actually arrives at the store.
 
Today, I noticed the lowest price for diesel I've seen in awhile.


$3.99 (now, multiply that by 80, or 100 or 150)
 
Limbaugh did an interesting monologue yesterday on the inability of the economy to sustain these higher prices. You can ask whatever you want but if no one can buy at your price you have to come down to where they will buy.
 
Limbaugh did an interesting monologue yesterday on the inability of the economy to sustain these higher prices. You can ask whatever you want but if no one can buy at your price you have to come down to where they will buy.

While that's certainly correct, those of lesser means get well and truly fucked in the meantime.
 
While that's certainly correct, those of lesser means get well and truly fucked in the meantime.

don't I know it.
If I didn't have some 'means', I'd have long been on the street.

We've been stripping wire from collected junk, for to turn in the copper ($3/lb)
 
We've been stripping wire from collected junk, for to turn in the copper ($3/lb)

Be right careful about that dude. The law's lookin awful close at stuff like that around here. Make damn sure you can prove you didn't steal it. We even get about a news story a month about catalytic (sp?) converters bein sawed off cars on lots. A PSA is runnin on th'TV about the dangers of copper wire theft. They ain't playin. Keep your receipts.
 
A local restaurant had to open a couple months later as someone(s) broke in in the middle of the night and stole the copper duct work. Fuckers.
 
shit, some people used to call me and my dad "Sanford and Son"
If the authorities come down here, all the have to do is look around, and they'll
understand.:bgtup:

I used to work at a machine shop, and know most of the scrap yard people by name anyway.
 
Only Greentech Can Save U.S. Economy, Says Über-Investor

"The U.S. financial system is in a mess. The global marketplace is in the same disarray ... What the hell is going on? Can we get out of this mess, and how? And will our children be living in caves?"

New Yorker staff writer Nick Paumgarten posed those distressingly pertinent questions to Michael Novogratz, president of the Fortress Investment Group and the 317th-richest person in America, yesterday at the New Yorker Stories From the Near Future conference.

Much to the relief of everybody who doesn't want to spend their retirement fending off water bandits, Novogratz was optimistic. Our current economic woes, he said, are analogous to the dot-com bubble burst.

The internet's turn-of-the-millennium troubles were solved by the rise of second-generation web services. Globalization 1.0, as Novogratz called it, stalled after an initial purchasing power burst among the developing world's newly-arrived middle classes, but will be saved by globalization 2.0. All will be well.

There's only one catch: We need another wealth-generating economic bubble. And that, said Novogratz, must come -- can only come -- from new energy sources and green technology.

"As the price of oil goes up, there's got to be a green revolution. I think of what will be the next driver of the American economy, and it's green energy. That's a huge growth opportunity. It's not about the pollution. It's about the energy. Gas will go to $10 a gallon," he said.


I tracked Novogratz down after his speech. He was surrounded by a cluster of $2,000-a-head conference attendees wondering what will happen to the U.S. dollar and what to invest in. (The answer to their first concern was over my head -- but as for the latter, Novogratz is excited about the Brazilian economy.) Curious about his distinction between economic self-interest and the effects of pollution, I asked for his take on the economic impacts of climate change.

He seemed quite sanguine. It's a wild card, he said, but probably won't have an impact within the next ten years. "In 30, 40, 50 years, maybe you get an event that scares people. But unless you get an out-of-the-box event that you can tie into climate change," he continued, it wasn't going to be an economic factor.

Now, there's a reason why Novogratz is a full-blown member of the plutocracy and I'm a science journalist -- but that said, this seemed a bit cavalier to me. He's betting that worst-case scenarios won't come true, and even the short-term possibilities are scary. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change warned in their last report that even small increases in global temperature could cause water shortages for hundreds of millions of people, crop-threatening droughts, increased flood and storm damage, localized "negative impacts" on subsistence farmers and fishers, and potentially troubling disease shifts.

(Or, to think of it another way, the current food crisis is taking place without an actual food shortage. Add a season of widespread droughts or floods to the mix, and things get bad. Quickly.)

That's just the short term. The long-term is much scarier -- and part of the reason why wealthy people are so wealthy is the ability to think several decades into the future. Seeing green technology in terms of maximizing profits rather than reducing greenhouse gas pollution creates a false dichotomy: pollution and profits are intertwined -- if not now, then certainly in the future. And the future may arrive sooner than expected.

Note: "The politicians' response should be, 'Get used to it,'" said Novogratz of the emerging energy crisis now fuelled by rising oil costs. He was particularly scathing of Hillary Clinton's gas tax holiday, which he called "the stupidest idea I ever heard."

Note #2: For more in this vein, read Alexis Madrigal's interview with angel investor Eric Janszen. Janszen also believes that only greentech can save the U.S. economy.
Source [wired.com]
 
still is for me, in my little world that is shrinking all the time.
Partly because I'm not hard to find, much about me is open record, and
many people in this area know me. (I'm doing my best to be a pillar)
 
Not a lot of copper theft here in this part of the state, but in the Central Valley, there's plenty. Farmers will often head out to turn on the water pump only to find out that the wire has been stolen, which is infuriating because it's the first time they tried to turn on the pump after replacing the wire that had been stolen before.

Anyone remember SETI@Home? The server was down for a while because the fiber-optic lines were severed during a big copper theft at the UC Berkeley campus.
 
they were having trouble with tweakers (meth heads) stealing copper south of here a couple years ago. but that seems to have subsided...
 
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