Loose Change: Final Cut

Gotholic

Well-Known Member
Loose Change: Final Cut

I know many of you have heard about the 9/11 truth movement and the arguments about how 9/11 was an inside job. You may have looked into it somewhat, or even a lot, and came to the conclusion it is not true.

Loose Change: Final Cut puts the core of the arguments in a nicely presented fashion.

Popular Mechanics did do a rebuttal on previous arguments of this film. However, this last version that is linked above was not even touched. Loose Change: Final Cut was never refuted. I doubt most of you have even seen it.

Once you have seen this documentary on the subject and still not believe it, then kudos to you for actually being informed about it and coming to your own informed opinion.

A red pill.
 
I gotta say ...Ventura's case he made on his new show had some
pretty good unanswered questions.

I would like to know more about the black boxes.

I know know if the gov. had any involvement, but I do think some things were covered up.
 
I saw that show! It was good. However, it only touches the surface. Loose Change: Final Cut goes into much more detail.
 
Truthers are delusional, easily led, easily misinformed, and easily duped individuals. They are useful idiots as Lenin dubbed those who could be used to unwittingly further the movement.
 
if it's ALL just a delusion, why don't the people in question just answer these questions?

Don't they want to help these people? and dispel the myths?
 
Truthers are delusional, easily led, easily misinformed, and easily duped individuals. They are useful idiots as Lenin dubbed those who could be used to unwittingly further the movement.

teabaggers, birthers, populist voters, "conservatives," and the list goes on...
 
The difference between "truthers" and "birthers"?

Truthers will never change no matter how much evidence to the contrary.

They don't believe what was documented and preserved on video, through recordings of phone calls, and by millions of eye-witnesses as it happened.

Birthers don't believe a document that has been presented with no witnesses, has no provenance, no original paper, and no signatures.

They, on the other hand, only need to see a long form birth certificate.

:shrug:

Herewith, two scenarios.

Scenario A: The supposedly inept president of the United States carefully planned and orchestrated the worst terrorist attack on American soil in our history. Though "only" 3,000 people died, the plan was to kill many more by simultaneously attacking the World Trade Center, the Pentagon and either the U.S. Capitol or the White House itself on Sept. 11, 2001.

Hundreds of people, including personnel from myriad agencies, participated. According to some versions of Scenario A, explosives were placed at the World Trade Center to ensure success. In other versions, all of "the Jews" working there were tipped off by some phone bank run by the Mossad. In every version, however, the U.S. government was in on it, and everyone involved kept the biggest secret in American history.

Then, there's Scenario B: An ambitious and extremely clever politician, who has at best been selectively forthcoming about large chunks of his youth, lied about his place of birth so he could be eligible for the presidency.

To further this scheme, he has arranged for the full and/or original version of his birth certificate to remain under lock and key. At most, a handful of supporters and lawyers are in on the whole thing.

Now, which one is more believable? For the record, I don't believe either. But it seems to me the "birther" hypothesis is vastly more plausible than the "truther" hypothesis. Politicians lie to advance their careers. You can look it up. Whole governments rarely orchestrate incredibly complex acts of physics, logistics and mass murder all the while pinning guilt on others (who boast that they acted alone).

Just for clarification: "Truthers" believe scenario A. "Birthers" believe scenario B.

The question of which scenario is more plausible is neither academic nor trivial. This summer, a host of columnists, commentators and activists, seemingly taking their cues from a White House and DNC public-relations offensive, declared that the rise of the "birthers" was a fatal indictment of modern conservatism and the Republican Party. The refusal of the birthers to give up their cockamamie theory was proof that the GOP had succumbed to the "paranoid style." Indeed, according to some liberal commentators the birthers were the potential wellspring for a nascent Nazi movement in America. Never mind that the vast majority of leading Republicans and conservatives — from Newt Gingrich to Ann Coulter — rejected the birthers categorically.

Fast-forward to the last week or so. Van Jones, an avowed "communist" and passionate supporter of convicted cop killer Mumia Abu-Jamal, was a truther par excellence. Contrary to many reports, he didn't merely sign 911truth.org's petition in 2004, he helped organize one of the first truther groups as early as 2002.

When these and other revelations came to light, Jones resigned from his White House job as "green jobs czar."

The reaction from much of the liberal establishment has been fascinating, hypocritical and deeply creepy. For starters, the same White House that fueled the anti-birther boom has refused to offer a single critical word about Jones' past positions (some of which he recanted as his job security grew more threatened; we'll see how long that lasts).

In July, the popular left-wing Web site FiredogLake couldn't let go of the birther bit. One post — titled "The Republican Party is the Birther Party, and it's dragging them down" — made much of the fact that 28 percent of Republicans, according to one poll, do not believe that Obama is a natural-born citizen. This week, the site's founder, Jane Hamsher, was disgusted that Jones was "thrown under the bus," even though he subscribed to trutherism, a view that "35 (percent) of Democrats believed as of 2007."

Got that? Belief in an implausible conspiracy is a cancer on the GOP. Even greater belief in an even more implausible conspiracy is proof that it's mainstream.

Apologies for Jones and trutherism appeared instantly on the sites of the left-wing flagship magazines The Nation, The New Republic and elsewhere. The New York Times and Newsweek deliberately distorted what the truthers believe in order to make Jones look more reasonable and his critics more unreasonable. The Financial Times actually reported that Jones resigned for criticizing how the GOP majority had run Congress.

But mostly, the mainstream press changed the subject to how the right is paranoid and vaguely unpatriotic for opposing Obama's speech to schools Tuesday, despite the fact that most conservatives and Republicans didn't protest the speech once the Department of Education's controversially politicized lesson plans were withdrawn.

One last question is worth asking. Forget which is more plausible.

Which scenario is more unpatriotic, more malicious, more corrosive to civic life? In short: which is more evil? Again, I think the answer is obvious. Alas, it seems I'm in a minority.
 
The difference between "truthers" and "birthers"?

Truthers will never change no matter how much evidence to the contrary.

They don't believe what was documented and preserved on video, through recordings of phone calls, and by millions of eye-witnesses as it happened.

Birthers don't believe a document that has been presented with no witnesses, has no provenance, no original paper, and no signatures.

They, on the other hand, only need to see a long form birth certificate.

now you messed up.
See there's Always a problem when 'broad' generalizations are made with 'people'.

There Are those in just about any group that are the exception.

Shocker: this is one of the few parts of PC I actually agree with.
"profiling" must be done in a certain manner to be useful.
If not done in the proper manner, it will make the point trying to be achieved
look more irrelevant, and possibly hypocritical.

Let's do be careful here. ;)
 
birthers will keep desperately clawing for anything they can use to convince themselves that obama is not one of us.

go ahead and deny it, but to those of us without roles in this third grade drama, it's entirely transparent.
 
well, i certainly have more in common with him that i do with y'all baggers. i mean, i do know some commies personally, have read the koran, et cetera, and i ain't into clinging to guns and religion (not to mention bullshit identity politics ha ha fucking ha pipe down white boy terrorist).
 
Truthers are delusional, easily led, easily misinformed, and easily duped individuals. They are useful idiots as Lenin dubbed those who could be used to unwittingly further the movement.

Hey, Jim, how about you watch it completely first? I would like to know what you think after the fact.

It just might turn you.

I think it will turn many here if you just give it a chance and watch it.
 
The first conspiracy theory I read on this had the government bringing the planes down at a nondescript military base due to a purported emergency, deplaning the passengers who were subsequently executed, and flying a remote control upgraded flight into the buildings.

How am I to take those kinds of rantings?

Most of the arguments I have read on the collapse of the buildings has to do with the melting of the girders and the neatness of the collapse. "There couldn't have been enough heat generated to melt the girders!" "Why did the buildings collapse in such a structured way? Why didn't they fall sideways?" "Why did Building Seven collapse when it was undamaged?"

The answers to these questions is "Because you do not know the physics of the components of the disaster."

What the melting girders groups refuse to recognize is the architecture of the building. All of the elevators were in the center of the building forming a central column of airspace. That airspace became a venturi through which air was drawn for the fires fed upon. The air coursing up that column was likely traveling at near supersonic speed. This acted like a welder's torch and superheated the fires. The columns didn't have to actually melt. All they needed to do was to lose structural integrity do to being annealed by the heat.

As for the neatness of the collapse, then structures came straight down because the air being displaced by the collapse rushing back into the void held the materials into the path of the collapse.

As each floor pancaked onto the next, the air between the floors was instantly expelled under great force. This formed a low pressure area -- a vacuum as it were -- into which the expelled air sought to return. The force of the returning air actually held the mass of the building into itself.

Of course, the Truthers will say that there was dynamite placed in all of the floors and on the supporting columns and the collapse was a controlled detonation of those explosives. This is what they will say of the collapse of Building Seven as well even though they never saw anything about Building Seven that was not taken from several blocks away.

I disagree, and there is no movie which will change my mind; but here is what I will do.

I will invest the two hours watching this shit just so I can see what the kooks have come up with this time. It can't be even half as funny as the conspiracy theory that the government will project a holographic image of Jesus Christ returning to Earth to explain the disappearance of all of the patriots. "They were taken up! The Rapture is here!"

Anything with the name Alex Jones attached is pure shit right out of the box.
 
i don't really care? i wasn't commenting on content, just method. but that's not so interesting when you're already convinced that you're right and all your looking for is shit that supports your side of whatever.
 
i don't really care? i wasn't commenting on content, just method. but that's not so interesting when you're already convinced that you're right and all your looking for is shit that supports your side of whatever.



Do you mean to say: "Boooooosh!!!!!!"
 
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