Protest Warrior

Jeslek

Jeslek

Banned
(Friendly advisory: If Saddam supports your views concerning the war, this might not be a thread for you.)
Notice how I didn't say Saddam supporters!

http://www.protestwarrior.com/ has some interesting pictures of how they um, attend these anti-war rallies with some rather interesting signs.

Watch this video: http://www.protestwarrior.com/video/video_download.html It is hilarious to see the peace-protestors get angry and violent all in the name of peace.

Also check out the photo gallery. It is good stuff. And last, I got some tshirts from them. I'm not really one to run out and rally, but I do like to wear shirts like this:

tshirt_back_slavery_for_web.jpg

unamerican.jpg


This one got me dirty looks:
america_israel.jpg


This one really gets the blood pumping when people take the time to read it:

racists_for_left.jpg



Hmm, should I add a Jeslek's propaganda lable here?
 
Terrorism still exists too...

Now if you took the ended out of the statement I might actually agree... but only in respect of the immediate crisis at the time.:p
 
Aunty Em said:
I beg to differ on the first statement - they all still exist.
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You're being facetious and side-stepping the point... War ended slavery in the US. War ended the Nazis' control of Europe. War ended the fascists' control of Italy. War ended the British control of... oops, nevermind. :p ;)
 
:rolleyes: most racists i know of are right wingers. and also we still have communism(not necessarily a bad thing), racism.
 
freako104 said:
and also we still have communism
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Freako, you're going to seriously disagree with me, but there has never been a communist nation. Calling a pile of shit a rose doesn't make it smell better. Communism works well for bees and ants, but humans are by and large venal, self-centered and greedy. Communism doesn't work with humans. The main difference between Czarist Russia nad what it became under Lenin and even more so under Stalin, was who was in charge.
"From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs?" Too many people think that their "ability" lies in soaking up the fruits of someone else's labor. It's an interesting thought experiment, but I think history has shown that it simply can't work.
 
My point is, the fact that they call themselves communist doesn't make it so. They aren't really. Real communism can only be seen in insects, as far as I know. It has never really existed in a human society. This is just my opinion, but have you ever read the manifesto?
 
chcr said:
Communism works well for bees and ants, but humans are by and large venal, self-centered and greedy.
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Marxism is unworkable, not because people are evil, but because the system itself is evil. It is an elaborate justification for slavery, and in every country that attempted to implement it, the result was slavery. The fact that Marx promised people a utopia if they would submit to slavery doesn't mean that those who failed to reach that utopia didn't implement the theory properly; it means the promise was a lie.
 
Ardsgaine said:
Marxism is unworkable, not because people are evil, but because the system itself is evil.
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I don't think people are evil (well not all of them) but they are human. I guess I probably didn't explain my self well enough to freako, but I think Ardsgaine understood part of it. Marxism is (at least tries to be) a human interpretation of the way bees, ants, or termites live. We call it communism, but it isn't really. Since we don't have a collective conciousness, it doesn't work for us. This was, IMO, Marx's main blunder. You can't expect humans to behave like anything other than humans. I don't think it's even possible to implement the theory. I do think that Marx was fool enough to believe that it would work. I do not believe that about Lenin, however, and if history does not judge Stalin the greatest monster of the twentieth century then there is something wrong. I've always believed Stalin considered himself Czar, for all that he paid lip service to the ideals of Marxism. As for Marxism being evil, I don't know. Evil without intent, I guess I could argue either side of that one. I know you probably disagree, Ards, but if Lenin hadn't seized on his teachings to fire his "people's revolution" Marx would be a footnote to history at best.
 
Okay, I think I understand your point better now. The way I would put it is that humans function as individuals. Their actions are properly directed towards their own survival, not the survival of a collective. They can cooperate to achieve goals, but the cooperation has to recognize that each one is an individual, or it breaks down.

When you say that Marxism isn't really communism, I understand the point that you're trying to make, but I wouldn't want to get hung up on semantics. Communism is generally understood to be either the social system advocated in Marx's philosophy, or the social systems that result when people attempt to implement Marxist philosophy in practice. Bees and ants live a communal existence, but to say that they're practicing communism sounds a little weird.

chcr said:
As for Marxism being evil, I don't know. Evil without intent, I guess I could argue either side of that one.
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"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" is a looter's principle. It takes a criminal mentality to advocate such a thing. Also, I think that when you look at the cult of personality that surrounded Marx, and how that has been put into practice in every communist state, you have to recognize that the philosophy attracts the most evil power lusters in society. It was invented by a man who wanted to rule people, and it has been used as a justification for dicatorship over and over.

chcr said:
I know you probably disagree, Ards, but if Lenin hadn't seized on his teachings to fire his "people's revolution" Marx would be a footnote to history at best.
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Actually, I don't necessarily disagree. It's impossible to say for certain that Marxism wouldn't have taken root elsewhere. Obviously, though, it received a massive boost from the Russian revolution.
 
Ardsgaine said:
It's impossible to say for certain that Marxism wouldn't have taken root elsewhere.
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We agree about that, it certainly had proponents all over the world. I just think that Lenin was the only one that had the timing and the dissatisfied people to pull it off. As you say, impossible to know for certain.
I don't agree that this is a looters mentality, or even criminal in intent. Certainly has been in practice, though. I really didn't intend to get off on this tangent, but a good discussion always makes me think about what I believe, and this is a good thing.
 
What the USSR was & Cuba & China are now is socialist. That is, the labor & goods of the collective is divided or distributed by the government, according to the work done.. Nor is there private property.

Communism is the equal division of all between all.

However, under a true communist or socialist state, there would be no priviliged, class or individual. Ask Castro how that sounds.
 
Ardsgaine said:
chcr said:
Communism works well for bees and ants, but humans are by and large venal, self-centered and greedy.
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Marxism is unworkable, not because people are evil, but because the system itself is evil. It is an elaborate justification for slavery, and in every country that attempted to implement it, the result was slavery. The fact that Marx promised people a utopia if they would submit to slavery doesn't mean that those who failed to reach that utopia didn't implement the theory properly; it means the promise was a lie.
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my 11th grade teacher, ms Cohen said that same thing just not in those words but that in order for utoia people basically gave up free will for a greater cause :shrug: i never truly saw it as evil just different. but personally i want free will so i guess to me its evil in that way.

chcr i never read the manifesto. they called themselves communists cause they tried the Marxism in action. now granted it didnt work but they still were but people arent insects. insects work toghter(ants and bees and whatnot) humans dont do that.
 
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