Socialism and Absolute Moral Truths

Ardsgaine

Ardsgaine

Active Member
I thought I should start this as a new thread.

Originally posted by Luis G
ok, i like the idea of socialism because "everybody" gets the same, everybody works and everybody have the same priviledges.
Click to expand...

So you take equality as the measure of what's good? Not simply equality before the law, or even eqaulity of opportunity, but actual equality of results... Everyone must have the same amount of wealth, and must do the same amount of work. Do you consider it an absolute truth, then, that equality of wealth is good and inequality of wealth is evil?

However, the quality of socialism that is seen in the world r that has been seen in the past does not live up to the standards of a very good idea where everybody is rich and worker.
Click to expand...

Sure. It always turns out that some people are more equal than others.
 
If Luis G wrote what he meant, as it's written, then I have one question for him.

What has socialism ever created? (besides a mess)

Capitalism, with all it's faults, at least sparks ideas & creativity.
 
Good question! What has socialism EVER created?

Why is it that just about everything in this world was/is invented/designed in the United States and to a lesser part Canada? Why is it that by far the most technological breakthroughs in the last 50 or so years come from this side of the Atlantic? Why were we first on the moon, and we didn't starve millions to get there? Why are we the most powerful entity in this world?

CAPITALISM! That implies RIGHT WING! The more you limit capitalism, the more left you move, and the more you restrict economic and social development.

ok, i like the idea of socialism because "everybody" gets the same, everybody works and everybody have the same priviledges.
Click to expand...

That is sick. I don't want everyone to have the same. I want the guy that is REAL smart and works his ass off to make millions of $$$ and the guy that is too lazy to move his ass to rot on the dump. I will NOT support lazy people. I am AGAINST welfare, except in a limit form (mentally retarded people, crippled, etc.), but those people will STILL WORK to their capabilities.

It is not the fucking government's job to steal from the hardworking citizens and give to the lazy SOBs as it is so well demonstrated in Scandinavia.
 
I'm studying political science, philosophy, and sociology in conjunction with my major in Software Engineering. I've read many books on the subject and devoted much thought into it. Here is a few books you can read:

Mein Kampf by Adolf Hitler
Crime and Punishment by Fyodor Dostoevsky
War and Peace by Count Nikolayevich Tolstoy
Erewhon by Samual Butler

and read books by Thomas Hobbes, Locke, Russeau, and read up on Trudeau. The last two guys were complete dolts though.
 
Originally posted by Gonz
If Luis G wrote what he meant, as it's written, then I have one question for him.

What has socialism ever created? (besides a mess)

Capitalism, with all it's faults, at least sparks ideas & creativity.
Click to expand...

Yes, i'm a supporter of "the idea", i really like the idea of everybody being "rich" and work at what you do best. If you don't work you lose your priviledges that simple.

Socialisms attempts in the world have not succeded because of the utopic nature of "the idea", again, i like the idea that lies behind the socialism, but the results we've seen with it are bad. Probably we as humans can't accept the fact of not being richer than your neighboor.
 
Originally posted by Ardsgaine
So you take equality as the measure of what's good? Not simply equality before the law, or even eqaulity of opportunity, but actual equality of results... Everyone must have the same amount of wealth, and must do the same amount of work. Do you consider it an absolute truth, then, that equality of wealth is good and inequality of wealth is evil?
Click to expand...

Yes, equality in rights, money, priviledges and OBLIGATIONS.
If you are good with computers, fine, work with computers, if you're good cleaning the street, do it, everybody gets the same ammount of priviledges, and these priviledges must be good, not like the misery that most people in the USSR lived in.
 
that would be "the absolute moral truth" about socialism, not more not less.

I don't consider other ideas evil either.
 
Communism, in theory, is wonderful. In practice, it kills several hundred million people. Socialism, in theory, is fair. In practice it makes a state full of welfare recipients. :biker:
 
Originally posted by GOD ALMIGHTY
Communism, in theory, is wonderful. :biker:
Click to expand...
I was about to post that too... I'm almost God :D.
Yes, communism is a wonderfull idea. It just doesn't work, but is still a wonderfull idea. Because admit this, fellow OT'ers, to the human soul, left wings brings desillusion, right wing brings... nothing. I'm with Luis on that one.
Why is it that just about everything in this world was/is invented/designed in the United States and to a lesser part Canada?
Click to expand...
.
ROFLMAO... it's been so long Europe invented the US, you don't even remember.
 
Originally posted by GOD ALMIGHTY
Communism, in theory, is wonderful. In practice, it kills several hundred million people. Socialism, in theory, is fair. In practice it makes a state full of welfare recipients. :biker:
Click to expand...

Hate to dispute the word of God Almighty himself, but it is the theory behind socialism which sucks, and that's the reason why it doesn't work.

I'll explain in a separate post.
 
Originally posted by Luis G
I don't consider other ideas evil either.
Click to expand...

Ideas are only good or evil when put into practice. It's socialism as a practice that I consider evil, not socialism as an idea that pops into someone's head. Actions are good or evil, ideas are true or false.

Are there actions which you consider absolutely evil?
 
:D

why don't you post your thoughts and your reasons to consider "evil" the socialism?.
this thread started because i asked you why you considered evil, i have expressed my reasons, i want to hear yours.
 
god almighty you said it best in your post that it has good ideas but has been done by the wrong leaders. it reminded me of a quote by Homer Simpson(i know hes an idiot but this was a good point i felt the writers made) "In THEORY communism works." now im not saying it doesnt work. hell Cubas been doing allright. its not as stable as other countries but it isnt going totally sour either. now with capitalism communism and socialism i dont think they are evil any of them. its the leaders that i dont like. heres why i say what i do(and i know people will give me shit baout this so im prepared for it) i go to leaders like Lenin who if any of us older gens(i was a toddler but i remember hearing about the USSR and other such countries) will remember that the USSR collapsed under the coomunsit rulers but Fidel Castro has been president of Cuba since the Cold War and as said Cubas going allright for itsself. but i do also agree with something Last Legionairy siad when he siad he wont support lazy assed people. I whole heartedly agree. work for what you earn is something i think all people should think about. but luis i also agree with equality but i put equality as under the law and under the god or gods or lack thereof(basically were all human not deities.) and ardsgaine there are actions i do feel are evil. they are rape,molestation,murder,any kind of sacrifice etc...
 
Cuba? You are funny Freak104. :biker:

Economy - overview: The government, the primary player in the economy, has undertaken limited reforms in recent years to stem excess liquidity, increase enterprise efficiency, and alleviate serious shortages of food, consumer goods, and services, but prioritizing of political control makes extensive reforms unlikely. Living standards for the average Cuban, without access to dollars, remain at a depressed level compared with 1990. The liberalized farmers' markets introduced in 1994, sell above-quota production at market prices, expand legal consumption alternatives, and reduce black market prices. Income taxes and increased regulations introduced since 1996 have sharply reduced the number of legally self-employed from a high of 208,000 in January 1996. Havana announced in 1995 that GDP declined by 35% during 1989-93 as a result of lost Soviet aid and domestic inefficiencies. The slide in GDP came to a halt in 1994 when Cuba reported growth in GDP of 0.7%. Cuba reported that GDP increased by 2.5% in 1995 and 7.8% in 1996, before slowing down in 1997 and 1998 to 2.5% and 1.2% respectively. Growth recovered with a 6.2% increase in GDP in 1999 and a 5.6% increase in 2000. Much of Cuba's recovery can be attributed to tourism revenues and foreign investment. Growth in 2001 should continue at the same level as the government balances the need for economic loosening against its concern for firm political control.
GDP: purchasing power parity - $19.2 billion (2000 est.)
GDP - real growth rate: 5.6% (2000 est.)
GDP - per capita: purchasing power parity - $1,700 (2000 est.)
Click to expand...

from http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/cu.html
 
Originally posted by freako104
and ardsgaine there are actions i do feel are evil. they are rape,molestation,murder,any kind of sacrifice etc...
Click to expand...

So you would agree that self-sacrifice is evil?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top