THE BEST LAID PLANS Armed and Dangerous

HeXp£Øi±

Well-Known Member
News organizations are obsessively gushing over the details of U.S. war equipment--cutaway engineering drawings of Apache helicopters, graphics showing how to grip an assault rifle during street fighting--yet everyone's missing what appears to Best Laid Plans to be a significant military technology story: Two U.S. Abrams M1 tanks have been knocked out by Iraqi forces, the first Abrams ever lost in combat.

The Abrams was invincible during the 1991 Gulf war--destroying hundreds of Iraqi tanks, including the modern, expensive Russian-built T72, without a single loss on our side. In other deployments as well, the Abrams has performed as though surrounded by a Star Trek energy shield. Bullets, artillery, and anti-tank rockets have bounced off its 70-ton shell, especially the highly sophisticated glacis plate at the front of the tank. The Abrams glacis plate includes, among other materials, "depleted uranium," a non-radioactive form of the metal that numbers among the densest known substances.

Now two Abrams tanks have been knocked out near An Najaf by the AT14 "Kornet," a new Russian-built, soldier-carried anti-tank rocket somewhat similar to the new U.S. "Javelin" weapon. Kornets are laser-guided for accuracy and employ an advanced kinetic penetrator (extreme speed, not explosive power, is the key feature) to break through the layered, "composite" armor used by the Abrams and other advanced tanks.

In both cases of Abrams hit by Kornets, the tank was disabled but the damage was limited enough that crews got out unharmed. (Most American anti-tank munitions are designed to set the insides of tanks on fire, leading to hellish death for crews.) At any rate, Iraq now has a weapon that can knock out an Abrams. This may mean trouble as U.S. and British forces approach Baghdad. It also means that other dictatorships around the world will hear the news and line up to buy this Russian product.

Because the Kornet was first fielded in 1994, obviously Iraq obtained it in violation of the U.N. embargo. A large shipment of Kornets was sold by Russia to Syria in 1998, so peace-loving Syria may be the violator. Some intelligence sources maintain that a few Kornets were also aboard the Karine A, the weapons ship intercepted on its way to the peace-loving Palestinian Authority. If Kornets find their way into the hands of the Palestinian Authority, Israeli tanks will no longer be able to roll with impunity through the West Bank and Gaza.

Meanwhile, lost in the data-crawls on CNN was that the Pentagon announced this morning that about 5,000 bombs and missiles have been employed so far against Iraq. This is the reverse of shock and awe--5,000 sounds like a lot, but in military terms, it's slack and awe-shucks.

U.S. forces expended some 22,000 bombs and missiles in the Afghan campaign, though the majority of them impacted against the sides of mountains during the battle of Tora Bora. One thousand bombs dropped was typical for a single raid in World War II. Maybe it makes sense, given the desire to avoid killing civilians, for the United States to proceed gradually with bomb totals. But the impression being given to the world, by the U.S. media as well as the Arab and European press, is that Iraq is being subjected to an astonishing, unprecedented assault. It's not.

http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=iraq&s=easterbrook032803.1
 
Those tanks were knocked out, but the armor was not pierced. Those shots went into the tread areas...the Achilles heel for 99% of tracked vehicles on the planet. ;)
 
It's interesting because nobody has ever stopped an Abrams before. I'll be watching to see how they fair under city conditions with the Iraqis knowing they have a soft rear end.
 
HeXp£Øi± said:
It's interesting because nobody has ever stopped an Abrams before. I'll be watching to see how they fair under city conditions with the Iraqis knowing they have a soft rear end.

Mostly because nobody ever got close enough before. Sandstorms are both enemy and ally in the desert. ;)
 
Now two Abrams tanks have been knocked out near An Najaf by the AT14 "Kornet," a new Russian-built, soldier-carried anti-tank rocket somewhat similar to the new U.S. "Javelin" weapon. Kornets are laser-guided for accuracy and employ an advanced kinetic penetrator (extreme speed, not explosive power, is the key feature) to break through the layered, "composite" armor used by the Abrams and other advanced tanks.

In both cases of Abrams hit by Kornets, the tank was disabled but the damage was limited enough that crews got out unharmed. (Most American anti-tank munitions are designed to set the insides of tanks on fire, leading to hellish death for crews.) At any rate, Iraq now has a weapon that can knock out an Abrams. This may mean trouble as U.S. and British forces approach Baghdad. It also means that other dictatorships around the world will hear the news and line up to buy this Russian product.

True, if the tank is not hit from the front. I guarantee that there in no way a little anti tank missile will penetrate 3 feet of depleted uranium. This is the amount of armor in front of the driver and the turret. However, you could easily take any tank out by hitting it in the ass end where the armor is thin and easily penetrated. The last half of the skirting on the side of the tank isn't even armor plated. It's thin, measuring maybe a 1/8 of an inch think. The first three measure about 3 inches thick.
 
The engine alone amounts to $250,000. This dosen't include the turbine, tranny (another $500,000), as well as the rest of hardware that is involved.
 
It is however, easily replaced. Simply pull the back plate, disconnect the pack, pull it out, put a new one in, and off you go. All goes well, maybe looking at two or three days down.
 
Ok, was that my answer? I'm still confused, why can't they put some more armor on the ass end?
 
The Abrams was designed in the 70's during the Cold War. It was not designed to be a tank out in the open. It was build to be a defensive weapon. Hit and move, hit and move, hit and move. The tanks better suited for woodland warfare, which is what is was build for. Over in Germany, to protect the Fulda Gap from the Russians.
 
All things considered though, how many tanks have the Armored Regiments taken out? How many tanks, APC's, and other vehicles have these beasts taken out.

The real beauty of the Abrams the is capability to shot on the move. When the gunner lazes, that turret is locked. I'm sure people have seen this happen. The gun is pointed in one direction while the hull is moving in another direction. That gun is locked on that target (With you viewing at one direction and you body going another, it takes a lot of time to get your body ajusted to this. I can't count how many times gunners have gotten sick from this). You could shot on the move going up to 45MPH on that flat land over there. With a kick ass gunner and driver, you should be able to go even faster.
 
PostCode said:
Were going to find those weapons of mass destruction, were going to shove them down Chirac's throat, and then were going to go home.

Interesting. I wonder, once you've destroyed the weapons you delivered to them. Will you then sell new ones to them?.
 
HeXp£Øi± said:
Well...you're not going to build a 100ton tank just so that you can drive it down city streets.
This is true.. to build a tank with the same armor on the rear as the fron would kick his weight over 100tons...

HeXp£Øi± said:
The Abrams was invincible during the 1991 Gulf war--destroying hundreds of Iraqi tanks, including the modern, expensive Russian-built T72(...)
To speak the truth, the T-72 is not the most modern of the russian arsenal. It is their 'export' model and lacks the long range capabilty of the T-64, T-80 and T-90s.
 
Matrox said:
PostCode said:
Were going to find those weapons of mass destruction, were going to shove them down Chirac's throat, and then were going to go home.

Interesting. I wonder, once you've destroyed the weapons you delivered to them. Will you then sell new ones to them?.

Shouldn't it be "we're" instead of "were"?
 
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