The issue of our popularity in Iraq...

[HeXp£Øi±]

If Someone buried you alive how would you feel? Days go by and you just know that you're a dead man but wait... there's an earthquake! The ground splits open and spits you out! Now how do you feel? You're ecstatic, dancing & overwhelmed with joy! Finally you're free of that coffin. Now you got out and you're dancing with joy but does that mean you love eartquakes? No. Of course you're extemely glad that earthquake happened when it did but you're not going to love earthquakes especially since all they've really done is cause you harm in the past. Hopefully you're getting my drift. Now i'm not saying this is absolutely the way it is. But i do believe it is very possibly accurate. I just hope those in our government understand this through and through.

Sorry for the bad analogy. It came on a whim.

 

[fury]

Praising the earthquake for getting you out of a tight situation NOW is much better than damning the earthquake because of all it's done in the past. That might get you bad karma and another earthquake might swing by and knock you right back down in the hole the other one got you out of.

 

[unclehobart]

Test of Job.

 

[Ardsgaine]

Sorry for the bad analogy.

The reason it's a bad analogy is because the earthquake didn't choose to free you, therefore, it does not deserve any gratitude. If the Iraqis end up with a free country, they will owe us a debt of gratitude, whatever they may feel about our past actions.

 

[HeXp£Øi±]

All due respect Ards but that's your opinion not a fact. They have many perfectly logical reasons not to trust us. First off we've been manipulating that part of the globe for decades and we've let them down on more than one occasion resulting in many thousands of deaths. If your wife cheats on you once you may forgive her but if she does it twice will you ever really trust her again? Our actions in the middle east over the years have given those people sufficiant reason to lose hope and trust. I don't argue the idea that they may owe us some debt of gratitude only that they have perfectly good grounds not to trust us. Can you blame them? The question isn't what are our intentions, the question is what will they believe our intentions are because ultimately their beliefs are going to determine the outcome of the situation not our intentions.

I'd just like people to think about this before they make any hasty judgements when they observe Iraqis in the streets chanting 'U-S-A'. Lets wait until the Euphoria calms down a bit.

 

[kuulani]

American popularity crossed my mind too as I watched the news last night. Granted, I'm biased against America in the first place, but I agree, we can't really think that Iraqi attitued towards America will change overnight.

I'm just wondering how Iraq will get past all this. Will America force their government and ideas on yet another country?

edit - I guess America already did start forcing their ideas on Iraq when they started this war.

 

[Ardsgaine]

All due respect Ards but that's your opinion not a fact.

I don't see a contradiction between what I said and what you said. ?(

 

[outside looking in]

I don't really care whether the Iraqis like or dislike us after the war. All I can hope for is that they establish/maintain a reasonable form of government, make logical decisions, and stop self detonating in public places.

Everyone has a right to their own opinion. There are countries that don't particularly like the US (at least, they claim not to envy us or anything of the sort), yet they retain decent diplomatic and economic relations with us. They don't kill innocent women and children, and their dislike remains more of a "thumbing their noses" than an all out war-cry.

That's the best I can hope for. I hope the Iraqis enjoy their freedom. I don't expect them to want to be just like us, but I do hope they respect us.

 

[HeXp£Øi±]

Sorry Ards, sometimes i tend to read to much into things. I think i assumed your expectations/outlook was much more positive than mine that this was going to go by the book(as we write it). I sense too much optimism in the population and to little caution.

 

[Gonz]

I guess America already did start forcing their ideas on Iraq when they started this war.

I've seen several stories on "human shields" that came home bewildered. It turns out many of the Iraqis wanted us to start this war long before we did.

Living under oppression is worse than dying to many.

I'll see if I can dig some up.

 

[Ardsgaine]

I sense too much optimism in the population and to little caution.

There's what I hope will happen, what I expect to happen, and what will actually happen. I know the first two are different, and I imagine the last one will be too. I'm taking a wait and see approach.

The only thing I can point to to support a positive viewpoint is that the Kuwaitis still seem to be grateful, and it's been 12 years since the Gulf War. They, at least, haven't forgotten what Saddam did to them, or that we were the ones who saved them and continued to shield them after the war. They don't seem to be overly affected by the bad press we get in the Arab media.

I think the negative viewpoint on Iraq's future is mainly held either by people who think that the Arabs are incapable of gratitude; or people who think the US is an evil country that no one not blinded by patriotism could love.

Caution is good, because I lot of things could still happen to derail what we're trying to do. I don't see any reason for pessimism, though.

 

[HeXp£Øi±]

I have trouble using Kuwait as a parallel. Their economic/political difference is and has been like night and day. The long standing royal family of Kuwait has for many years taken care of and educated the population. They pay for every citizens schooling and medical. I watched Frontline(i think) about a year ago and listened to many Iraqis say that they would never forgive the united states for what they had done to Iraq under sanctions. In the past five years alone 500,000 children under the age of five have starved to death in Iraq. It doesn't matter who's fault it is it matters that many will blame us. I don't feel that they're incapable of gratitude, but i know many of them are stubbern. A hard life can do that to a person. They have to go with the flow to survive and the flow is Saddams regime. After so many years you become that person.

I don't see any reason for pessimism

I don't either. Rather cautious restraint.

 

[Gonz]

From a former member of the Army to a person working with the police to taxi drivers to store owners to mothers to government officials without exception when allowed to speak freely the message was the same - `Please bring on the war. We are ready. We have suffered long enough. We may lose our lives but some of us will survive and for our children's sake please, please end our misery.

Source

 

[Gonz]

A Kurdish fighter holds a placard reading 'Bush and Blair, the champions of peace' on Thursday April 10, 2003.

 

[Gonz]

“Is this the way the Iraqis want to thank us? We left wives and kids to fight here, and nobody wants to give us shelter or even water,” he said.

An Iraqi driver working with foreign journalists who had overheard the conversation, broke in to ask the fighters: “And who told you to come here?

“You were only fighting for Saddam Hussein who brought the country to ruins and who let you down in the end. That's all,” he said.

“True,” answered another fighter, “but today, Baghdad is occupied.”

 

[ris]

i wonder how much will change when the liberations and joy pass and the day to day life of being policed by someone foreign begins. i think that part of the process, hopefully short-lived, will not be a difficult one.