Abortion - the social dilema

[ris]

Your husband has no say?

Thats right nalani, does the father of your child have no fucking say at all?

that's my business ... and no one elses.

Right, just like whether I want to murder someone is my decision and no one elses.

keep the expletives down please, a simple question doesn't require the added vitriol on an already sensitive subject.

at the end of the day the mothers decision has to be the one that counts the most, she has to bear, give birth and make a decision on what to do with the child after.
the father may have a view but ultimately it is the woman's body and her choice.

 

[freako104]

that's my business ... and no one elses.

i agree but as i said in other threads if the father of the child is in the life he should have a say as well. if not it is the mothers decision herself. Jer back the hell off Nal.

 

[ris]

keep the war talk down please matey.

 

[MrBishop]

The fetus (foetus) is the unborn child...it's considered a fetus until the 'quickening', or first movement discernable from outside the womb (usually end of 2nd trimester)...after that...it's a baby, and not available for abortion.

**I'm a Canuck, not a Brit**

The 'father's rights' are a touchy issue...a friend of mine got herself preggers. She didn't want it but the father did. They're not married, they havn't been dating for a long time, and they're not sure that they love each other yet. They certainly aren't ready for a kid. The father's religious and doesn't like the issue, but the mother isn't about to give up her life, her job etc...for 10 months of pregnancy and a year of babysitting. She's not all that fond of kids as is. They discussed it...he was against it, but eventually agreed to the abortion, because he didn't want to bring someone into the world that he wasn't sure would be wanted or properly loved.

I've spoken to both of them since then....it was a tough decision, but they made it and will move on. They can always have another try at it in a few years, once they really know each other, but it could've turned out worst.

Legally...he doesn't have recourse. He can't force her to keep the child. Morally...he tried, but it didn't work. That is why the topic came up.

It's a tough arguement...not surprised that it's getting heated.

 

[freako104]

in your friends case, id suggest she give it to the father

 

[MrBishop]

It's too late for that...she booked it and followed up.

 

[freako104]

damn im sorry to the father since he wanted it but she did have a choice

 

[PT]

I've spoken to both of them since then....it was a tough decision, but they made it and will move on. They can always have another try at it in a few years, once they really know each other, but it could've turned out worst.

Are they still together? That would have seemed to be a relationship buster there.

 

[nalani]

Your husband has no say?

Thats right nalani, does the father of your child have no fucking say at all?

that's my business ... and no one elses.

Right, just like whether I want to murder someone is my decision and no one elses.

first of all, dickhead, don't EVER come at me like that again. You would just HAVE to be the first to be an asshole in this thread, wouldn't you? You didn't even give me the opportunity to respond and already you're calling me a murderer? You don't know the first thing about me so I suggest you back the phuck off. You truly believe that you have experienced enough and are old and wise enough to know what is best for everyone. That is so sad. But I take solice in the fact that you are digging your own hole and one day, someone (who will then be my hero) is going to shove you in that hole.

Like I said, it is my business and no one elses. If I choose to discuss it with the father, it's none of YOUR business. If I choose not to discuss it with the father, it's none of YOUR business. THAT'S what I meant by MY business and no one elses. YOU do NOT have the right to tell me how to live my life or what is right or wrong for me just as I do not have that right to do that to ANYONE ELSE.

Now, with that said, you are now on my ignore list. Up until this point I have ignored you with no problem - but you are too much of an inhumane jerk that doesn't even have the intelligence to see how much of an ass you really are that I have no other choice.

Thank you to all of you who have come to my defense in my absense. I truly appreciate it.

 

[freako104]

keep the war talk down please matey.

sorry i didnt like the way he went at Nal

Thank you to all of you who have come to my defense in my absense. I truly appreciate it.

sure nal you know we love ya

 

[nalani]

I truly appreciate it, freak ... unfortunately, some people just don't know how to be mature .. all they know is how to be assholes ...

 

[ris]

i appreciate the sentiments of support but they can be in a different form than making threatening overtures to other members.

as can be seen i made a point of picking jeslek up for the nature of his question, it does not need the argument expanded further.
many threads in this forum have degenerated in this way and i intend to cease this manner of problem as much as possible.

with all due respect to nalani it was her question to answer, and answer it she did.

 

[nalani]

ris - you have a PM

 

[MrBishop]

Are they still together? That would have seemed to be a relationship buster there.

Would seem so, but that's not the case...seems to have made them stronger. Unusual, non?

Nal: You go girl!

 

[freako104]

Would seem so, but that's not the case...seems to have made them stronger. Unusual, non?

thats great hope it works out for them

 

[Gonz]

welll...here's a twist

Conn. Supreme Court: Fetus Is Body Part
By MATT APUZZO The Associated Press Wednesday, May 7, 2003; 7:07 PM

HARTFORD, Conn. - Angering both sides of the abortion debate, the Connecticut Supreme Court ruled Wednesday that a fetus is a body part, akin to teeth, skin and hair that are eventually shed.

The ruling unanimously upheld the conviction of a man who tried to induce a miscarriage by slipping his girlfriend labor-inducing drugs. Edwin Sandoval argued he could not be charged with attempting to commit aggravated assault because the fetus was the target, not the mother.

Though the court held that the 5-week-old fetus was part of the woman's body, Chief Justice William J. Sullivan issued a separate concurring opinion saying a fetus might have "its own independent existence."

"In other words, the fetus may both be a part of its mother as well as its own individual being," Sullivan wrote.

Anti-abortion groups applauded the court's protection of the fetus, but criticized the identification of a fetus as a body part.

"It could have had a different blood type, and certainly it had different DNA," said Bill O'Brien, vice president of the Connecticut Right to Life Corp.

Sullivan's opinion, which declared that a fetus may be entitled to legal protection, drew criticism from abortion rights groups.

"Any time I hear about giving rights to fetuses, I get concerned," said Elaine Werner, executive director of the Connecticut chapter of the National Abortion and Reproductive Rights Action League. "That's the slippery slope to eroding Roe vs. Wade."

Sandoval was sentenced in 2001 to 12 years in prison for using ulcer medication in an attempt to induce a miscarriage. The woman later gave birth to a healthy son.

Gov. John G. Rowland is expected to sign a bill increasing the penalties for someone convicted of assaulting a pregnant woman and causing her to lose the fetus. The assault would be punishable by 10 to 25 years in prison.

Defense attorney Paula Waite said if the fetus is its own life form, the state's abortion laws are in question. If the fetus is a body part, laws increasing the penalty for assaulting a pregnant woman could be jeopardized.

Another defense attorney promised to appeal.

© 2003 The Associated Press

 

[freako104]

that is a twist but if she wanted the kid id say its attempted murder or assault since it can hurt the mother. but it was an eye opener this morning

 

[Luis G]

I'm pro-choice but only before the 3rd month.

 

[a13antichrist]

Yet even the most hardcore athiest values a newborn babies life more than an adult.

Excuse me? Are you most hardcore atheists? If you think about this "logically", in fact the adult is more valuable because he is capable of reproducing and hence propogating the species NOW, whereas the baby still has a good 18 years to go.

For me, I would have problems, but for others, if they can live with themselves, that's all that matters. I couldn't, so in that sense I'm against it. But, I won't try to make the choice for others.

Dude this is pretty much precisely the definition of "pro-choice"..

 

[a13antichrist]

Are they still together? That would have seemed to be a relationship buster there.

Would seem so, but that's not the case...seems to have made them stronger. Unusual, non?

Only if you're concerned uniquely with your own interests. A healthy relationship would be able to discuss it and decide what is best for the couple, rather than for each person individually. Obviously this couple realised that. If the couple isn't capable of doing that, then they certainly shouldn't be having a baby together in the first place.