african-american

[tonksy]

you're white. members of the dominant social group never really have an emphasis so much on culture (in a basic sense) in an overt way because their culture is simply the way things are. it's the other folks that need to assert identities through "culture," real or made-up. (oh, but it's all made up...)

I may be white but I am also a first generation American on my mother's side. There are difference from one country to the next.

Na - Nothing against what you said. I was just stating a different point of view.

 

[2minkey]

Sorry, but I don't "need" to assert my identity through anything. I know who I am. I know who my ancestors were further back than you have fingers and toes to count as do my children.

that's super. so what does that make you?

 

[Gonz]

Hence adding "if it's pointless to you, it can mean nothing to me". Before the time of the "melting pot", families were culture-based.

Which is where you lose me. I bet that, prior to about 1950, nobody gave one thought to "culture". They just were. Tradition & need created situations for all cultures. It just was. Then somebody with too much time on their hands & too much freedom (thanks to the American cultire) decided to make a big deal out of it.

Your great great grandma didn't make (fill in ancestrasl food here) because it was the preferred Hawaiian method. She did it because the ingredients were nearby & she was taught to do it.

There is nothing wrong with celebrating ones heritage, However, in the grand scheme of things, it makes zero difference to ones life. It doesn't put food on the table or gas in the car or a roof over ones head. It's a lovely time filler though.

 

[nalani]

Which is where you lose me. I bet that, prior to about 1950, nobody gave one thought to "culture". They just were. Tradition & need created situations for all cultures. It just was. Then somebody with too much time on their hands & too much freedom (thanks to the American cultire) decided to make a big deal out of it.

Your great great grandma didn't make (fill in ancestrasl food here) because it was the preferred Hawaiian method. She did it because the ingredients were nearby & she was taught to do it.

There is nothing wrong with celebrating ones heritage, However, in the grand scheme of things, it makes zero difference to ones life. It doesn't put food on the table or gas in the car or a roof over ones head. It's a lovely time filler though.

For about 100 years prior to 1950 Hawaiians started to think about our way of life because it was deteriorating quickly due to the western influx and Christianity. I'm not going to get into our history because in my experience when dealing with you and matters of our history you are open to learn nothing but what you think you know - which is why I didn't get into it in the first place. So, we differ in our opinions. So what? I didn't sit here and try to "prove" anything or bring you over to my side of thinking. I didn't disrespect your opinion nor did I call you and your family and your ancestors a waste of time. I merely said that on a personal level I found that sad and for me personally it's disheartening and I also added, which seems for some reason to be lost on many people here, that if it's nothing to you, it's nothing to me because I don't live your life. This isn't TRW so I fail to see the need to bash on me because I have a differing opinion, was raised differently and actually love my culture and my heritage. I know you don't like me, for whatever reason, but have a bit of decorum.

Tonks - there was no offense taken - I was just merely, again, pointing out that I wasn't bashing on anyone and was speaking from a pure personal view .. which, for whatever reason, I'm the 'bad guy' around here .. kinda sad, really ...

2minkey- it makes me Nalani.
By the way, to those who are cultural practioners, it doesn't matter whether or not our culture puts food on the table (which it does), pays the bills (which for some, it does) because we don't merely 'celebrate' it - we live it and manage to do so whilst walking in the 21st century.

 

[tonksy]

I don't think you are the bad guy, Na. I just don't think I came across well.

 

[2minkey]

For about 100 years prior to 1950 Hawaiians started to think about our way of life because it was deteriorating quickly due to the western influx and Christianity... our history ... love my culture and my heritage...

pretend i didn't use the word "need" earlier, and just said something about having some well-developed, firm notions of identity based on ideas of history, ancestry, culture, et cetera, that are distinct from the "western influx."

that seems to be you. that's all i meant before.

i don't have such notions about myself because, for the most part, i am the stinking western influx, so there's no point to distinguish myself from it.

 

[MrBishop]

Which is where you lose me. I bet that, prior to about 1950, nobody gave one thought to "culture". They just were. Tradition & need created situations for all cultures. It just was. Then somebody with too much time on their hands & too much freedom (thanks to the American cultire) decided to make a big deal out of it.

I'll take that bet - but I think that you'll lose. St.Patrick's Day being a fine example of how culturally aware people were..long before the 1950's

The St. Patrick's Day parade was first held in Boston in 1761, organized by the Charitable Irish Society. New York City's celebration began on 18 March 1762 when Irish soldiers in the British army marched through the city

 

[2minkey]

I'll take that bet - but I think that you'll lose. St.Patrick's Day being a fine example of how culturally aware people were..long before the 1950's

The St. Patrick's Day parade was first held in Boston in 1761, organized by the Charitable Irish Society. New York City's celebration began on 18 March 1762 when Irish soldiers in the British army marched through the city

the notion of "culture" as understood by cultural anthropologists has origins in the 19th century.

the practice of all things cultural goes back, well, pretty much forever.

everyone is a "cultural practitioner," except perhaps someone who is deaf, mute, autistic, living in a bubble and totally noncommunicative.

 

[kuulani]

i don't really care what people want to be called. if someone prefers to be called "santa christ bob dole chicken fucker" then that's fine with me.

sure, it's easier to say "black" but, then, laziness isn't always polite.

my advice would be... get over it. let people construct their own ethnic identities and labels as they see fit.

youʻre not getting my point. my point is americans are americans. they are not african-americans, they are not chinese-americans. Americans are Americans.

 

[kuulani]

Guess the term Franco-American, Polish-American, German American, Irish-American, Russian-American, etc have never been noticed, spoken, written, or seen in her presence. I won't argue the point because its relatively pointless. We label ourselves when we feel we do not belong to the larger group...and the term for a person from Hawaii would be, and I kid you not...I've seen it...Pacific-Islander.

yup, thatʻs what we check on the census.

 

[kuulani]

Your great great grandma didn't make (fill in ancestrasl food here) because it was the preferred Hawaiian method. She did it because the ingredients were nearby & she was taught to do it.

You should research something before you speak on a subject.

My ancestors ate kalo (our staple food crop) because it was a representation of their gods. They brought the kalo plant to Hawaii over thousands of miles of oceans. It isnʻt a simple thing to keep kalo alive over thousands of miles of oceans. But they did it and propagated it in Hawaii. They couldʻve chosen to make any easily propagated plant their staple, but they chose kalo. Not because it was the "preferred Hawaiian method", but because it was to honor their gods.

The ingredient wasnʻt "just nearby."

 

[2minkey]

youʻre not getting my point. my point is americans are americans. they are not african-americans, they are not chinese-americans. Americans are Americans.

i don't think any of them are denying that they are american. you're viewing this as unidimensional. identity is anything but that. it is fluid and dynamic. it is framed by different social settings. and one frame is not a denial of others.

feel the rainbow.

you may be eating sorbet now, but it doesn't mean you've sworn off gelato. on christmas, if you're into jesus, you're christian. perhaps on sundays, too. doesn't mean that you gave up being a physical therapist, home health care aid, goat farmer, flea plooker, sunday school lunch lady, history professor, highway rest stop perv (say hi to peel for me ), or marine biologist.

so your, um, hawaiianess (for lack of a better term, perhaps you have one?) is pretty important to you, right? maybe you don't call yourself hawaiian-american, and that's your option, but why would you get upset with others who feel that they want express a particular identity keeping in mind that it's not a denial of fundamental "americanness."

here's a link to a seminal article by one of the leading race/ethnicity scholars alive today. i know her. i have access to the full article if you care...

otherwise, i'll simply accept that i just don't get it, and be done with this.

 

[Gonz]

This isn't TRW so I fail to see the need to bash on me because I have a differing opinion...I know you don't like me, for whatever reason, but have a bit of decorum.

What bash? I had something to say...as usual, it's not in PC speak so it's taken as an attack.

I have no idea where you get that "I don't like you". That is not now, nor ever has been, the case.

I just prefer to be brutally honest in my approach. It seems that the dislike goes the other direction.

You should research something before you speak on a subject....The ingredient wasnʻt "just nearby."

I said what was needed to be said. In your defensiveness you overlooked the point....Hawaiin was used because it is where you are. If your ancestoirs brought it...then it WAS nearby.

 

[nalani]

No, I don't think any point was overlooked except by you. Perhaps you should reread slowly. You said what was needed to be said? In order to bash on another persons/people way of life .. why you constantly feel the need to do that, I'll never know .. maybe it makes you feel better

 

[GrandCaravanSE]

Perhaps you should reread slowly.

I think alot of people need to do that... that includes me.