Another 'hope it ain't true...'

[Squiggy]

U.S. Reportedly Kills 40 Iraqis at Party
17 minutes ago
By SCHEHEREZADE FARAMARZI, Associated Press Writer


BAGHDAD, Iraq - A U.S. helicopter fired on a wedding party early Wednesday in western Iraq, killing more than 40 people, Iraqi officials said. The U.S. military said it could not confirm the report and was investigating.

Lt. Col Ziyad al-Jbouri, deputy police chief of the city of Ramadi, said between 42 and 45 people died in the attack, which took place about 2:45 a.m. in a remote desert area near the border with Syria and Jordan. He said those killed included 15 children and 10 women.

Dr. Salah al-Ani, who works at a hospital in Ramadi, put the death toll at 45.

Associated Press Television News obtained videotape showing a truck containing bodies of those allegedly killed. Most of the bodies were wrapped in blankets and other cloths, but the footage showed at least eight uncovered, bloody bodies, several of them children. One child was headless.

 

[The Other One]

http://news.yahoo.com/?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=3&u=/ap/20040519/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_attack

...in a remote desert area near the border with Syria and Jordan...Iraqis interviewed on the videotape said partygoers had fired into the air in a traditional wedding celebration. American troops have sometimes mistaken celebratory gunfire for hostile fire.

Maybe the Iraqis should suspend their celebratory gunfire while there's a war going on...

...Al-Ani said people at the wedding fired weapons in the air, and that American troops came to investigate and left. However, al-Ani said, helicopters attacked the area at about 3 a.m. Two houses were destroyed, he said.

So troops came to investigate the scene but left peacefully. Then at 3 in the morning helecopters flew back and attacked? Think there might be more to the story?

 

[MrBishop]

http://news.yahoo.com/?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=3&u=/ap/20040519/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_attack



Maybe the Iraqis should suspend their celebratory gunfire while there's a war going on...



So troops came to investigate the scene but left peacefully. Then at 3 in the morning helecopters flew back and attacked? Think there might be more to the story?

What more could there be? I know that some people consider the playing of "macarena" as a form of WMD, but this is rediculous.

Maybe this was another 'accident', like the killing of those Canadian soldiers.
Oops...one hand knows not what the mind, nor the other hand is doing.

 

[samcurry]

While it might seem crass, one would think that in a war torn country that is still in the midst of battle. It would seem very logical to NOT pull out weapons and fire them for any reason for fear of just this type of thing happening. That is called common sense.
But trying to imply that we intentionally went in and killed them just for the killing is wrong. The story tells us that this is a KNOWN route for militia to come from syria to iraq and also a route for weapons traders to us.
Hmm me thinks i would curb alot of ceromonial activity that might in other circumstances seem trivial but in todays iraq might be mistakenly seen as an attack of some type.

 

[Squiggy]

Sam, I know how you feel...wanting to disown any responsibility for what happened. But I'm sure you've seen the dramatic films they wanted us to see of our aircraft watching in total darkness and zooming in on individuals fleeing attack. We are EXREMELY capable of identifying our targets today. Damn near to the color of there eyes....Had this been spontaneous, I would understand. I have trouble understanding this particular turn of events.

 

[samcurry]

I dont want to disown responsibility, but part of me want to put myself in the shoes of the guys overthere. thay are basically walking targets doing a job some of them would rather not be doing. Id probably be a little trigger itchy if i were there and out of the darkness i see flashes from gunfire pointed up in the air. And i couldnt say with out a doubt i would pull the trigger and ask questions after the fact. In most cases in war by that time its to late id be dead if i didnt react.

 

[samcurry]

I guess im feeling a little bit sorry for the guys and girls over there doing a job that most of us has never done or when we were in the service we were not in a war and never faced the true possibility that we could die just because we were over there.
And it seems we all sit in our nice airconditioned homes and are way to quick to condemn them for the job they are doing. We very rarely hear "hey did you see today they went in and saved some family from being killed or something to that effect"
I truely do not believe we sent a bunch of warmongers over to just go around killing innocents. But that is all i read and hear anymore. It just makes me remember how the guys that were fortunate to make it back from Nam must have felt.

 

[Gato_Solo]

Sam, I know how you feel...wanting to disown any responsibility for what happened. But I'm sure you've seen the dramatic films they wanted us to see of our aircraft watching in total darkness and zooming in on individuals fleeing attack. We are EXREMELY capable of identifying our targets today. Damn near to the color of there eyes....Had this been spontaneous, I would understand. I have trouble understanding this particular turn of events.

Looks like somebody hasn't used the latest version of NVG's. I have. If you can tell eye color from that green haze, then you don't need he NVG's. You need a dog and a white cane, because you are obviously having a vision problem. Truth is, Squiggy, that identifying targets at night is still a risky proposition. Maybe you're right, and they shouldn't have fired, and, later, if that wedding party had turned out to be a raiding party, you could claim that they should've shot them when they had the chance. Do us all a favor. Don't judge the situation in hind-sight. It makes you look like a hypocrite, and I know you aren't (even though, sometimes, you may be).

 

[Professur]

*sigh* what it all comes down to is that we've surrounded ourselves with stupid people by letting them breed. Now they've all got guns. And they've still breeding.

 

[Gato_Solo]

*sigh* what it all comes down to is that we've surrounded ourselves with stupid people by letting them breed. Now they've all got guns. And they've still breeding.

Wrong. The story was twisted to fit the opinion. Here is another link. I'll give you a quote, if you don't want to use the link...

"We took hostile fire and we returned fire," said Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt, deputy director of operations for the US military in Iraq.

He said there were no indications that the victims of the attack were part of a wedding party.

He added that a large amount of money, Syrian passports and satellite communications equipment had been found at the site of the attack.

Could be a wedding party...until you look at the hostile fire and the satellite communications equipment. I'm just as jaded as the next person when reading this, so I'll say it before Squiggy, or other apologists come around. While DISH network can be classified as satellite communications equipment, I'm sure that the BBC would be quick to investigate whether this was actually for entertainment.

 

[Professur]

I was referring to both sides, Gato.

 

[The Other One]

...He added that a large amount of money, Syrian passports and satellite communications equipment had been found at the site of the attack.

As for the LARGE amount of money, that was among the gifts for the bride and groom.

Foreign passports, well duh-- they were planning a honeymoon trip.

Obviously in that part of Iraq they are subject to roaming fees--hence the satcom.




Yeah, that's it.

 

[Inkara1]

Hey, DISH Network makes a great wedding gift!

 

[Gonz]

War. People die. Sometimes the wrong people. Most times not.

 

[Sharky]

Anybody remember My Lai?

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/vietnam/trenches/mylai.html

I'm aware that it's not necessarily comparable to what happened in Iraq, but . . .

 

[Gonz]

Certainly.

Remember Normandy?

 

[Sharky]

Certainly.

Remember Normandy?

Aye . . . if you're referring to Omaha Beach, that was more of a tactical debacle than a slaughter of civilians, right? I'm not seeing the connection.

 

[Gonz]

Debacle? The allies took that beach. Took that entire country....took the war. Ya know why? Because we didn't focus on screw-ups & bad news. We focused on winning. Less sedition = less terrorism.

 

[Sharky]

Debacle? The allies took that beach. Took that entire country....took the war. Ya know why? Because we didn't focus on screw-ups & bad news. We focused on winning. Less sedition = less terrorism.

The invasion was successful, of course. But the landing at Omaha Beach cost more than 3000 casualties, none civilian. Because of tactical errors.

http://www.normandiememoire.com/NM60Anglais/2_histo3/histo3_p4_gb.htm

Your point is not lost, however.

 

[Winky]

It ain't true... just another lefty lie!

Kool link