Cheating

[PT]

My mother married her third husband when I was 12. He was the one I would most likely think of as a Dad, at least the only one that really tried to be more than just a buddy. When I was a senior in High School, he cheated on my mom with some chick he was in a college class with. It then came out that that wasn't the first, he was also a volunteer fireman and had had a couple other flings while off at "training". The last time ended it for them, my mom moved away and he went off on his own too. When I graduated High School, I moved to KC where she was living. When I walked in the door, he was sitting there in the living room. I didn't talk to my mom for a few months after that day, but I finally accepted that if she was willing to forgive him, I suppose I should too. Four years later he was screwing a girl he worked with.

I guess the moral to all this is that it's damn hard to trust again. I don't really believe a person will cheat once and stop. I think that once they get away with it, caught or not, they will do it again. If they are willing to lie to someone they should care a great deal about, they are willing to lie to anyone about anything. I would seriously consider the idea that although this happened long ago and they may have made their amends about it, the sad truth may be that they have just gotten better about hiding their affairs.

 

[Gonz]

i didnt feel it was necessary to toss away 25 years of friendship over something that was something i couldnt have prevented, didnt impact me, and was, frankly, none of my business.

Didn't impact you? A person you trust has just proven their inability to be trusted. If he is willing to throw away a marriage over something so immaterial as a piece of ass, what's he gonna do when the stakes are raised?

 

[MrBishop]

I don't cheat, but that's my morals. If I judge someone using their own stated morals, then that's another story.

If someone told me that they were cheating, I'd tell them that they were talking with the wrong person and that they should be talking with their spouse or SO about it, not me.

The tough part after that is where my own fealty lays. Am I more of a friend with the cheater or the cheated?

In either case, chances are that telling the spouse will cause both relationships to falter. The spouse may not believe me and hate me for the accusation. The cheater may hate me for going around their back and telling. So..I lose two 'friends' for the price of one.

I'd rather not know.

 

[Dave]

Didn't impact you? A person you trust has just proven their inability to be trusted. If he is willing to throw away a marriage over something so immaterial as a piece of ass, what's he gonna do when the stakes are raised?

no, it didnt impact me. i dont know the entire story and didnt ask to hear it. it was something between him and his wife.
they are still together. if he walked away, i would probably feel different.

 

[Professur]

The replies here remind me of when JJR couldn't understand that when I said I wasn't gonna start another distributed computing project until I'd managed 1000 Seti units, I actually meant it. The idea that someone wouldn't just shrug off an irrevant promise bewildered him. I see from here, he's not alone.

 

[Dave]

explain that analogy please.

 

[Professur]

Well, Spot, not knowing exactly what part of common morals and ethics you don't understand makes that a touch difficult, but I'll try.


concept one : Civilisation and society is based on the simple idea of people forming a group to help advance each other. Commerce is too, for that matter. After all, if I don't trust a farmer to bring his crop to market, I have to spend the time to grow my own, or risk starving. Said farmer has to trust that the blacksmith will supply him with what he needs to farm (tools, plow, etc). Otherwise, he'll have to spend time smithing or risk not being able to harvest his crop. The problem with all this is that if the farmer is spending time smithing, he's not farming. It the smith is having to farm, he's going to be less skilled at his trade. Understand?

 

[Dave]

stuff the sarcasm Prof. i didnt understand the context of the Seti story. it threw me off a bit when you compared finishing a task with the ethics/morals of marital infidelity.

 

[Professur]

stuff the sarcasm Prof. i didnt understand the context of the Seti story. it threw me off a bit when you compared finishing a task with the ethics/morals of marital infidelity.

But I didn't. I compared it to honesty, and trust.

Concept two : define (for yourself) the term friend. As opposed to just anyone you know the name of, or someone you've nodded to in the hall at work.

 

[Gonz]

when you compared finishing a task with the ethics/morals of marital infidelity.

The difference is???

 

[chcr]

The difference is???

 

[Dave]

But I didn't. I compared it to honesty, and trust.

Concept two : define (for yourself) the term friend. As opposed to just anyone you know the name of, or someone you've nodded to in the hall at work.

now you have me completely confused. how does not starting another distributed computing project until you'd managed 1000 Seti units and JJR's bewilderment at that compare to honesty and trust? especially in the context of this thread.

for clarification purposes, the friend i mentioned i have known for going on 30 years now. what he did was stupid but i'm not going to cross him off the christmas card list for it.

 

[Gato_Solo]

now you have me completely confused. how does not starting another distributed computing project until you'd managed 1000 Seti units and JJR's bewilderment at that compare to honesty and trust? especially in the context of this thread.

for clarification purposes, the friend i mentioned i have known for going on 30 years now. what he did was stupid but i'm not going to cross him off the christmas card list for it.

He did what he said he was going to do. Others didn't, and JJR wondered why. It has to do with integrity. The ability to say what you mean, and stick to it regardless of what others may do. Marriage is an even greater promise than those SETI units. The world we live in has devalued so much that was important for things that are based on immediate gratification that you forgot that some things are important enough to stick with. The mere fact that you, and chcr don't see this is about what I expect in todays world. You treasure nothing for the long-term over the gratification of the short-term. I wish you luck in the world you are creating because I will most likely be dead before it comes to fruition.

 

[Professur]

I'm sorry it confuses you, Spot, and I'm not trying to be sarcastic. We're looking at an elephant from either end, and you're trying to understand my description of it's tail while you're looking at it's trunk. That's why I'm trying to lay out the concepts first.


To clarify on the Seti thing. Simply put, if someone's not able to keep their word on something irrelevant and effortless, you can you possibly trust them to keep it on something more challenging?

As for your friend .... He'd drop from friend to aquaintance for me. A friend is someone I trust .... completely. Someone who I could trust to catch me it I fell backwards instead of pulling back and laughing. You say he did something stupid .... you imply that (forgive my assumption) you don't feel he'd ever do it again. But (and be honest with yourself) did you think he'd have done it the first time?

Personally, that he'd do it at all (for me) point to a basic lack of moral character. Given sufficent incentive, he acted. Given sufficient incentive, he'll act again.

There are two lines of reasoning I could take. Either he knew, or didn't know that an action was (for lack of a better term ) bad. Decision tree. If he knew, and acted anyways, then ....? If he didn't know ..... Either way, he's not someone that I know will make the (again, for the lack of a better term) good decision at any given time.

 

[Panoramic World]

My question is not have you ever cheated. My question is, if someone else has told you that they cheated and if that changed your opinion of them?What if it was someone very close do you like a best friend or a family member?

Also, have you ever been in a position where you felt obligated to tell the person who was being cheated on? Ultimately, what did you do?

My Previous Ex cheated on me pretty badly. In the end when I figured out/found out what was going on...It really did hurt me. The sad part was...she was a gold digger...And not only was she seeing me...but 2 other guys as well. Pretty much she's dirt to me....and I'f I did ever run into her I'd spit on her like she was a patch of dirt.

 

[Dave]

I'm sorry it confuses you, Spot, and I'm not trying to be sarcastic. We're looking at an elephant from either end, and you're trying to understand my description of it's tail while you're looking at it's trunk. That's why I'm trying to lay out the concepts first.


To clarify on the Seti thing. Simply put, if someone's not able to keep their word on something irrelevant and effortless, you can you possibly trust them to keep it on something more challenging?

As for your friend .... He'd drop from friend to aquaintance for me. A friend is someone I trust .... completely. Someone who I could trust to catch me it I fell backwards instead of pulling back and laughing. You say he did something stupid .... you imply that (forgive my assumption) you don't feel he'd ever do it again. But (and be honest with yourself) did you think he'd have done it the first time?

Personally, that he'd do it at all (for me) point to a basic lack of moral character. Given sufficent incentive, he acted. Given sufficient incentive, he'll act again.

There are two lines of reasoning I could take. Either he knew, or didn't know that an action was (for lack of a better term ) bad. Decision tree. If he knew, and acted anyways, then ....? If he didn't know ..... Either way, he's not someone that I know will make the (again, for the lack of a better term) good decision at any given time.

now that i understand. all that gobbledygook about Seti and farmers and smithys...

that was a completly out of character incident for him. i'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. people fuck up every now and again. how they respond to these things count towards their character. for me at least.
now, if he does it again...thats another story.

 

[Professur]

that was a completly out of character incident for him.

Difference of opinion. Obviously it was in character. Just a part of his character you hadn't seen yet.

i'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

I do too. The moment I meet them. That's not a freebie.

people fuck up every now and again. how they respond to these things count towards their character. for me at least.

Again we agree, in principle, but not in detail. IMO his response was to break trust. You're looking to his response to having broken trust. But that relies on what happened after he broke trust. That someone got caught and doesn't want to get punished again (again IMO) doesn't make him more trustworthy. You allow that he may learn from his mistake. I don't believe that it was a mistake. And in most people's opinion, they're only mistake is getting caught.

now, if he does it again...thats another story

Ever hear the tale of the Scorpion and the Frog? How many chances does one person need to know right from wrong? None. It's their definition of right and wrong that matter.


Spot, I'm sorry if this last point confuses you even more. I hope it doesn't. Ask yourself this : Why do people drive 10mph over the posted limit? Does it get them there all that much faster? Is whatever they're heading to really all that important? No. It's because they don't think they'll get punished for it. Take a good long look at the next freeway you drive down, my friend. Every single one of them is deliberately comitting a crime. And they all know it, and they all feel justified doing it.

But every damn one of them's gonna hit the brakes if they see a cop car ahead.

And that's a sad, sad reflection on society today. Personally, I do the limit. Maybe 5k under it.

 

[Gonz]

So SPot...assume you caught the mother of your 4 kids in bed with another man. Do you forgive?

 

[greenfreak]

So SPot...assume you caught the mother of your 4 kids in bed with another man. Do you forgive?

For everyone, this is what I'm curious about too. Most everyone's been responding as if it were a friend. But what if it was a parent, a spouse, or a brother/sister? I'm assuming these answers might change if it was someone that close to you.

 

[Dave]

you can continue to toss friends aside blithly for not conforming to your standards if you'd like. i'll wait and see how they react and handle themselves after the fact. if they have earned my trust and i consider them a friend, i will give them a chance to atone for their mistakes.

Gonz - i dont know. am i married to her?
i like to think i have the capacity to forgive. i gave up holding grudges and hating people many years ago. waste of energy.