France and Germany

[Coffee Bean]

I understand their frustration for being kept out of the loop by Bush. I mean you can't really trust the country that thrust the world into WWII or the country that we singlehandedly helped survive WWII...but why must they act like such spoiled babies?

The fact that the residents of these countries believe the BS that they're countries are standing up against Bush on "moral reasons" is pretty funny. If they think that their leaders are simply waving their minute manhoods into the air because they are "fighting the good fight" against the evil Bush they are mistaken.

If anything, their leaders are working on agendas of quests for power and greed more than Bush is. They are just hiding behind their own self perpetuated propoganda of "respecting the UN". When all it really is about is their own desire to be a world player, when they are anything but.

I'd even go so far as to say their current actions of leaving, Turkey, a country the vowed to protect during times of conflict, as an act of terrorism and a direct violation of the agreements they are falsley "holding" us to.

They are hypocrites and liars, and their naive bleeding heart sheep that call themselves "citizens of the free world" are nothing but apologists...being led by the hearts down a path they will soon regret.

I guess I just find it frustrating that people from these countries play the holier than thou crap...that they are somehow better people because they don't want to go to war for moral reasons. When they are just being jerked around by their own leaders, and are too selfish to realize it.

 

[Coffee Bean]

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/02/11/...wrap/index.html

In case anyone is wondering what the hell I'm on about.

 

[flavio]

The fact that the residents of these countries believe the BS that they're countries are standing up against Bush on "moral reasons" is pretty funny. If they think that their leaders are simply waving their minute manhoods into the air because they are "fighting the good fight" against the evil Bush they are mistaken.

Why do you think they are mistaken?

If anything, their leaders are working on agendas of quests for power and greed more than Bush is. They are just hiding behind their own self perpetuated propoganda of "respecting the UN". When all it really is about is their own desire to be a world player, when they are anything but.

What exactly is this quest for power they are on?

I'd even go so far as to say their current actions of leaving, Turkey, a country the vowed to protect during times of conflict, as an act of terrorism and a direct violation of the agreements they are falsley "holding" us to.

Bolstering the military in Turkey right now is seen as a preparation for war. Since they don't agree that war is the proper action right now, they also don't believe that preparation for war is the right action.

You seem to throw around a lot of accusations and insults in this post without anything solid to back up what you say. Do you have anything?

 

[flavio]

Your link doesn't work either.

 

[Coffee Bean]

The only reason they are being such idiots is because the UK and the US haven't invited them into the loop. They want to be viewed as world players, it has nothing to do with their morals...they are just using that as a smoke shield to remain in good standing with their unintelligent herd of a populous.

They have been kept out of any of the intelligence reports.

I didn't make that clear?

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/02/11/sprj.irq.wrap/index.html

 

[flavio]

They were in "the loop" with Powell's presentation to the UN. Afterwich they did not support war with Iraq at this time.

Since they don't support war at this time, they also don't support war preparations at this time. Seems pretty straight forward.

 

[Coffee Bean]

Why don't they support war at this time?

Moral reasons? Please.

Not following UN procedure? Please.

It's because they aren't world players, and thirst for it. And are being denied it.

They're inserting their will the only way they are able to. By obstructing what needs to be done. And hiding behind transparent lies.

And liberal terrorist apologists from this country even buy into it. Sad.

 

[flavio]

It's because they aren't world players, and thirst for it. And are being denied it.

Do you have anything to back that up AT ALL or is it just something you made up on the fly?

They don't support war for much of the same reasons half of the US citizens don't support it. They believe that there are still alternatives at the moment to large scale killing.

 

[Coffee Bean]

Alternatives like what? Resolutions that he violates? Negotiations? Are you really this naive?

They don't play by the same rules we do.

And believe me, it ain't half. People like you are in the vast minority.

 

[flavio]

So is your theory about "world players" something that you made up without any facts or not?

Alternatives like what? Resolutions that he violates? Negotiations?

Germany and France support the idea of strengthening the intensity of inspections and are probably also encouraged by the new abilities to use spy planes.

And believe me, it ain't half. People like you are in the vast minority.

Is that something else you don't have any facts to back up? Last time I looked 68% of the US citizens opposed war without UN support.

 

[Coffee Bean]

Good debate! Thanks for playing, I've said my piece.

 

[unclehobart]

France has billions invested in Iraq. Their companies and a small measure of their economy is rather tied up in Saddams continued existence. They built their nuclear reactors in the 80s that Israel susequently bombed. Frances actions are less than noble in al of this. They are this lanyard' ox being led about by financial self importance. They are the ones living up to the mantra of no blood for oil. I've no real idea what Germany is up to in all of this.

 

[flavio]

Good debate! Thanks for playing, I've said my piece.

So you come in here and spout off a bunch of crap without a single thing to back up what you say and then run away when a couple facts come into the conversation?

You're pretty pathetic aren't you?

 

[Coffee Bean]

Good debate! Thanks for playing, I've said my piece.

So you come in here and spout off a bunch of crap without a single thing to back up what you say and then run away when a couple facts come into the conversation?

You're pretty pathetic aren't you?

WTF?

I congratulated you on a good debate and I didn't feel a need to go back and forth!

WHATEVER!

 

[flavio]

I'd hardly call your posting a bunch of useless propaganda without a single supporting fact a "debate".

 

[Coffee Bean]

Wow.

If you need me to be wrong, if this needs to end in one of us being wrong or right...then fine. I'll be wrong for you.

 

[flavio]

Psycho huh? What makes you say that?

Did you want to post questionable claims and accusations without the need to back up what you say? I don't need anything but that's not the way it works.

Just a heads up for next time.

 

[Coffee Bean]

What makes me say it? That have taken this so seriously...that's what.

I said my piece...you kept hounding for "proof". What did you want? An mp3 of France's leaders saying, "We want tobe world powers!". Your request for "proof" was weird.

I could tell you were taking it far too seriously, so I bowed out gracefully...you apparently can't let it go.

The only head's up around here is the one that you need to yank out of your ass. You're right, I'm wrong. I'm just pathetic and crazy, everything I said was just made up stuff.

I'm done with this thread and with you. I suggest you do the same....

 

[flavio]

What makes me say it? That have taken this so seriously...that's what.

I said my piece...you kept hounding for "proof". What did you want? An mp3 of France's leaders saying, "We want tobe world powers!". Your request for "proof" was weird.

I could tell you were taking it far too seriously, so I bowed out gracefully...you apparently can't let it go.

The only head's up around here is the one that you need to yank out of your ass. You're right, I'm wrong. I'm just pathetic and crazy, everything I said was just made up stuff.

I'm done with this thread and with you. I suggest you do the same....

Look, if you make up theories and post them as having some basis in fact someone will call you on it.

I realize that you would like to save some face now by trying to insult me, but I don't think that it is having the effect that you intended.

 

[unclehobart]

You could also have taken it in the guise of a simple Op/Ed opinion where he was venting personal opionion on the matter. Personal opionion requires only circumspect levels of proof .. and only require circumspect acceptance on behalf of the audience. Debate is a possible outcome .. albiet rare. It it doesn't happen it is better to just let it go rather than fight over a meatless bone. Tempers are flaring and it would be best if everyone would take a breather and not come back until the knives get put away.