No such thing as free speech in the new world order

[Gonz]

Folks, you had start getting real scared, especially the Americans.

NEW YORK — With a trio of guilty verdicts yesterday, the U.N. tribunal for Rwanda has established that men armed only with words can commit genocide.
Three Rwandan media executives were convicted by the international tribunal of committing and inciting genocide, war crimes and persecution in a case that will set a precedent for the new International Criminal Court.

Washington Times

 

[PT]

Well now, what was said?

You can be convicted of inciting murder here in the states, have been for years. I can't tell someone to kill someone else and get away with it.

 

[Gonz]

That's right. And now it's backed by a UN judiciary committee. Hate speech is ugly. Actions kill.

 

[PT]

Hate speech, when used to incite murder, genocide, or any other illegal act, should be illegal. Now, you want to talk about how you hate some group, fine. Just don't convince your followers that it's ok or even expected to go out and string a few up.

I can't believe you are making such a big deal about this Gonz, do you really think it shouldn't be punishable for them to convince their followers to commit murder?

 

[freako104]

i think it should. if they can make their followers kill anyone then yes it should be illegal. i am against hate speech but i will allow it personally and say first amendment but if anyone tries to use the first amendment to get others to kill, maim, rape or whatever would cause harm to others

 

[Gonz]

There are certain conditions (middle of a riot) that speech can become incendiary. Conditions pre-exist to cause mass hysteria or criminality. Other than that, Free Speech for all. You can tell me to kill Squiggy all you want, no crime is committed until I act, at which point I am guilty, not you.

 

[freako104]

but i gave the order.










here is a scenario for you that did happen











the Charles Manson case. He himself never killed anyone but his followers did as he gave the order to. is he just as guilty as the members since he did coerce them into it?

 

[Squiggy]

Think you might be stetching yourself on this one, Gonz. Hitler only incited people too...he was damn good at it.

 

[Gonz]

A countries political leaders are a seperate scenario.

No, freak, I really don't know why Manson is in jail. He's fucked up crazy, no doubt. He is a scape goat. One that nobody minds becasue he is dangerous but a scapegoat nonetheless.

 

[freako104]

he is in jail because of what he did in court and also he incited others to kill. he is more than a scapegoat. hes a guilty POS

 

[Gotnolegs]

Let me get this straight, you say it is perfectly acceptable for an individual to incite racial hatred and violence, even to the extreme of causing genocide, but if a politician does it it isn't?

I can't help but think this is a little fucking twisted. What are your thoughts on Milsovic? Should he be on trial? I'd guess so because he was a leader and can therefore be held accountable for his actions, but if I'd gone out with the intention of finding some easily persuaded fool to kill someone for me I'd be perfectly innocent?

Wow, I'd pegged you as Right Wing but this goes of the fucking scale...

 

[Gotnolegs]

Folks, you had start getting real scared, especially of the Americans.

I think you missed a word Gonz...

 

[Leslie]

 

[Gonz]

Let me get this straight, you say it is perfectly acceptable for an individual to incite racial hatred and violence, even to the extreme of causing genocide, but if a politician does it it isn't?

Do not put words in my mouth. The difference is, a politician has the power (military) to back up their threats with action. They should be held accountable for destruction caused by the power they wield.

An individual, without taking action, has done nothing but flap their gums. Individuals have the right to their opinion & they have the right to express them. Hate speech is censored speech & that is not right.

 

[PT]

Ok Gonz. I give. You are hopelessly entrenched in your beliefs.


For the record though, I tell you to kill Squiggy, convince you that he is the anit-christ, or just plain scum. I pound this into your head for weeks, or even years. One day you do go kill him. I am most certainly as guilty of the crime as you are.

 

[Gonz]

Why? Did you threaten me? Did you put a gun to my childs head & indicate you'd kill him if I didn't kill? We're back to teh main topic of all conversation...choice.

 

[paul_valaru]

we have anti hate speech laws in canada, and we have no problems with it.

commited murder with words:

hitler
manson
Jones (jim)

it's still murder, your just using people as your weapons.

 

[Gotnolegs]

Why? Did you threaten me? Did you put a gun to my childs head & indicate you'd kill him if I didn't kill? We're back to teh main topic of all conversation...choice.

This is fine if you believe that everyone is intelligent enough and of sound enough mind to make reasoned decisions. As this is quite obviously false your argument falls down.

 

[Gonz]

If one is not intelligent enough to make a choice as simple as that, put them in prison or a padded cell. Murder is wrong on every single continent & in every single country around the world. Simple common sense says NOT to drag somebody behind your pickup with a rope. If you can't follow simple directions, let's make them for you. You aren't fit for living.

 

[paul_valaru]

If one is not intelligent enough to make a choice as simple as that, put them in prison or a padded cell. Murder is wrong on every single continent & in every single country around the world. Simple common sense says NOT to drag somebody behind your pickup with a rope. If you can't follow simple directions, let's make them for you. You aren't fit for living.

if you beleive in god (I don't know if you do, I don't care if you do, it's not a religious thread)

and this preacher (preist rabbi mulla) tells you that you must (should) kill so and so to enter heaven (acheive nirvana)

and you beleive him, and do it.

he was the gun you where the bullet.