not everybody

[H2O boy]

is up to sweeping change just because the chosen one is walking in the door

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Dozens of suspected terrorists released by the United States from Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, are believed to have returned to terrorism activities, according to the Pentagon.

Since 2002, 61 former detainees have committed or are suspected to have committed attacks after being released from the detention camp, Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell said at a briefing Tuesday.

the source

meanwhile...

WASHINGTON (AFP) – One of Barack Obama's first acts as the new US president could be to order the closure of the controversial "war on terror" detention camp in the US naval base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

Obama, who takes office on January 20 and promised during the presidential campaign to close the site, will likely shutter Guantanamo by issuing an executive order suspending President George W. Bush's military commissions system for trying detainees, Obama transition officials told US media.

that source

i feel safer already

 

[Gonz]

Those poor abused peasant-migrant-workers were just tryng to eek out a living when the mean old USA came along & put them in a hellish hole for no damned reason and tortured them unmercilously. It's no wonder the terrorists hates us (they should be called freedom fighters).

 

[MrBishop]

"the legal framework at Gitmo has failed to successfully and swiftly prosecute terrorists."

Gee... d'ya think?

 

[paul_valaru]

Just as the Government's claims that the Guantanamo detainees "were picked up on the battlefield, fighting American forces, trying to kill American forces," do not comport with the Department of Defense's own data, neither do its claims that former detainees have "returned to the fight." The Department of Defense has publicly insisted that at least thirty (30) former Guantanamo detainees have "returned" to the battlefield, where they have been re-captured or killed. To date, however, the Department has described at most fifteen (15) possible recidivists, and has identified only seven (7) of these individuals by name. More strikingly, data provided by the Department of Defense reveals that:

- at least eight (8) of the fifteen (15) individuals identified alleged by the Government to have "returned to the fight" are accused of nothing more than speaking critically of the Government's detention policies;

- ten (10) of the individuals have neither been re-captured nor killed by anyone;

- and of the five (5) individuals who are alleged to have been re-captured or killed, two (2) of the individuals' names do not appear on the list of individuals who have at any time been detained at Guantanamo, and the remaining three (3) include one (1) individual who was killed in an apartment complex in Russia by local authorities and one (1) who is not listed among former Guantanamo detainees but who, after his death, has been alleged to have been detained under a different name.

link

no none have actually returned to terror....

 

[spike]

Moreover, not one of those named in that earlier claim had attacked Americans after his release from Gitmo and all had been released "by political appointees of the Department of Defense, sometimes over the objection of the military" rather than through the tribunals process. Seton Hall's studies also found that a bare 55% of Gitmo detainess had ever taken up arms against the US and only 8% were suspected of being members of Al Qaida. The vast bulk of Gitmo detainees had been turned in by local warlords for bounty payments with no US witnesses to their alleged involvement in terrorism at all.

.

 

[randomJACKASS]

The sky is falling the sky is falling!

 

[randomJACKASS]

Ya see folks there are two choices...

We can use the constitution, and live free like the framers intended, and look for means of defeating terrorism that do not violate our most sacred document, and may actually have a chance of working. All the while living in the knowledge that we will fight these people in ways that support what we are supposed to be all about; i.e. life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, yet don't make the terrorists have more and actual valid reasons to hate us....

Or we can decide that non citizens somehow don't deserve any protections that we so proudly purport to hold dear, and take a bunch of people who may or may not even be a threat, hold them illegally torture them, and then pat ourselves on the back for what a good job we are doing protecting the world! We can practice fear mongering and keeping the populace in fear of uncertain undefineable threats, and passing laws we can use to undermine our own citizens rights if it comes up to be convenient. All the while feeding the rest of the world's mistrust and dislike of America and trying to scare them into being good.....

I wonder which one might work better? Must be neither! Time to launch some ICBM's and start up a Christian Master Race and finally bring Utopia to earth....

 

[H2O boy]

link

no none have actually returned to terror....

from the link

Blogs » Cernig's blog

its a blog, not a news site

next

 

[spike]

http://law.shu.edu/center_policyresearch/reports/urban_legend_final_61608.pdf

Just as the Government's claims that the Guantanamo detainees "were picked up on the battlefield, fighting American forces, trying to kill American forces," do not comport with the Department of Defense's own data, neither do its claims that former detainees have "returned to the fight." The Department of Defense has publicly insisted that at least thirty (30) former Guantanamo detainees have "returned" to the battlefield, where they have been re-captured or killed. To date, however, the Department has described at most fifteen (15) possible recidivists, and has identified only seven (7) of these individuals by name. More strikingly, data provided by the Department of Defense reveals that:

- at least eight (8) of the fifteen (15) individuals identified alleged by the Government to have "returned to the fight" are accused of nothing more than speaking critically of the Government's detention policies;

- ten (10) of the individuals have neither been re-captured nor killed by anyone;

- and of the five (5) individuals who are alleged to have been re-captured or killed, two (2) of the individuals' names do not appear on the list of individuals who have at any time been detained at Guantanamo, and the remaining three (3) include one (1) individual who was killed in an apartment complex in Russia by local authorities and one (1) who is not listed among former Guantanamo detainees but who, after his death, has been alleged to have been detained under a different name.

http://kyl.senate.gov/legis_center/subdocs/121107_denbeaux.pdf

"Indeed, those Guantanamo detainees who have been released since 9/11--discussed at length by critics of this legislation--have been freed by the military following its own process, not by federal judges on habeas review."

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2007_rpt/srpt110-90.html

 

[Gonz]

We can use the constitution, and live free like the framers intended, and look for means of defeating terrorism that do not violate our most sacred document,

Since these ENEMY COMBATANTS are captured on the battlefield or through military intelligence, linked to terrorism, we already have used the Constitution. The Commander in Chief asked Congress for approval to wage war against terrorists....they granted that request-twice.

These are not civilian criminals breaking windows. They are a para-military group at war with us. Thus, they are not affored habeas corpus un our Constitution.

Anyone think that Eisenhower should have granted the Nazi officers 5th amendment rights?

 

[spike]

Since these ENEMY COMBATANTS are captured on the battlefield or through military intelligence, linked to terrorism, we already have used the Constitution. The Commander in Chief asked Congress for approval to wage war against terrorists....they granted that request-twice. These are not civilian criminals breaking windows. They are a para-military group at war with us.

Wrong.

"found that a bare 55% of Gitmo detainess had ever taken up arms against the US and only 8% were suspected of being members of Al Qaida. The vast bulk of Gitmo detainees had been turned in by local warlords for bounty payments with no US witnesses to their alleged involvement in terrorism at all."

Thus, they are not affored habeas corpus un our Constitution.

Wrong again.

"the Supreme Court ruled Thursday that foreign nationals held at Guantanamo Bay have a right to pursue habeas challenges to their detention"

http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/court-gives-detainees-habeas-rights/

Anyone think that Eisenhower should have granted the Nazi officers 5th amendment rights?

Your comparison sucks. First of all the the people in gitmo would have to be enemy officers for it to work and secondly there's a fair amount of evidence that Eisenhower may have committed war crimes and starved many many POW's.

 

[Gonz]

...and secondly there's a fair amount of evidence that Eisenhower may have committed war crimes and starved many many POW's.

There ya go.

 

[randomJACKASS]

You know spike it amazes me that you stick with these arguments like you do. I have to credit you your passion, but scratch my head at the exercise in futility.

Unfortunately a lot of Americans relish our "superpower" status and feel we should hold on to it at any cost. What they fail to see is that, while we have not become like Hitler's Germany yet, and that we may never, we are slowly but surely showing arrogance on the world stage that will get us smacked down, as well it should. What America has become is more akin to the Roman Empire than Nazi Germany, but all things considered, all great empires fall, and we are nearing ours.

Back in the earlier 20th Century we had a good take on things. Be a good neighbor, but stay out of the affairs of the rest of the world. World War II changed all that. The great might of this nation was brought to bear against the axis forces, a noble cause if ever there was one. Any student of history though, will see that we only entered that conflict very reluctantly. I really wonder how it would have been had Roosevelt not died. Probably much like it is now, but we will never know, because Truman, the American people, and all the leaders afte,r have relished this superpower status and the power if affords us. It will be our downfall, I only hope it's a relatively gentle downfall, and failing that that I die before we see it.

The fact remains that the tough kid on the block is only one good whipping away from being just another whipped pup. And even if we are the most benevolent superpower the world has ever known, (it is possible but I doubt it) everybody resents the neighborhood bully.

If anyone "takes us down a peg" though, look for it to be China and North Korea, and not a bunch of religious fanatics.

 

[randomJACKASS]

....They are a para-military group at war with us....

So they are "almost" like combatants in a war so lets just make that leap....Even your own post is on its face a weak argument which allows us to pretend at high moral ground. Well I guess if it helps you sleep at night....

 

[Gonz]

Look what happens when a group of dedicated wannabes gets together & plans an attack...

 

[2minkey]

okay. now we've had the 9-11 photos. this thread is over. or at least it should be.

no, wait, we haven't heard any mention of "socialism" in this thread yet.

okay, keep it going. all the chimps need to be fed.

 

[paul_valaru]

okay. now we've had the 9-11 photos. this thread is over. or at least it should be.

no, wait, we haven't heard any mention of "socialism" in this thread yet.

okay, keep it going. all the chimps need to be fed.

All this is the fault of socialists.

that is why socialized medicine is so wrong...

 

[MrBishop]

All together now...

Sheila: Times have changed
Our kids are getting worse
They won't obey their parents
They just want to fart and curse!
Sharon: Should we blame the government?
Liane: Or blame society?
Dads: Or should we blame the images on TV?
Sheila: No, blame Canada
Everyone: Blame Canada

 

[spike]

 

[spike]

There ya go.

There's one of those useless posts you make all the time and then complain about other people making.