Remembering Pearl Harbor

[kuulani]

Yesterday was December 7th, a day of rememberance and memorials, especially at Pearl Harbor.

As I sat at home wrapping Christmas presents, watching the memorials being held on Oahu, I thought, for the first time in all of my 27 years, how truly tragic this must have been for those affected ... especially civilians that were simply preparing for the holidays, doing some of the same things that I was doing on that fateful Sunday.

 

[HeXp£Øi±]

I find the idea almost unimaginable. 9/11 was one thing but at the time of pearl harbor, when so much chaos and death was spreading throughout the world, and army sweeping over our own lands must have seemed even apocalyptic at the time. From that day on literally the entire world was at war. Also we didn't have the comfort at that time of being the most powerful nation on earth. It must have struck fear into the hearts of all Americans of such magnitute that none of us today(who don't remember it) can truly comprehend.

 

[kuulani]

People are arrogant, and what I mean by that is mostly everyone thinks, "nothing bad is gonna happen to me."

America wasn't in war at that time ... at that time in history, Hawaii was only under control of America for a few decades, we weren't even a state yet, how many civilians would be aware of the magnitude of war, especially in the 40s, when war wasn't a form of "entertainment" for the media?

Not even those in the military believed that Pearl Harbor was going to be under attack that day.

 

[Kawaii]

The sad thing is, the radar operators saw the approaching fleet on their screen, but they dismissed it as a squadron of bombers returning from a mission.
May the victims rest in peace, and the best of luck to their families and friends.

 

[MrBishop]

If anyone is interested in learning more about the attack on Pearl Harbor, may I suggest leaving the recent "Pearl Harbor" at the video store and renting "Tora! Tora! Tora!" instead.

It's a more historically correct movie and shown from both sides of the attack (Produced by both Japan and America)

A truly excellent flick.

Beyond all that...my prayers go out to those who lost loved ones on that fatelu day.

 

[Squiggy]

The sad thing is, the radar operators saw the approaching fleet on their screen, but they dismissed it as a squadron of bombers returning from a mission.
May the victims rest in peace, and the best of luck to their families and friends.

In recent years, it has been confirmed that the USS Ward did, in fact, sink a sub just outside of Pearl harbor an hour before the attack. This was the trigger for the conspiracy theories about whether we knew they were coming and "let it happen" so we could get into the war. The sunken mini sub has been found and the reports confirmed. Now its a debate over whether that sub should have triggered an alert that would have avoided the catastrophic results of the attack.

 

[nalani]

My mom is one of those who remembers it like it was yesterday ... blacking out the windows ... food rations ... wearing gas masks at school ... her generation went through a lot - from tsunamis to war ...

 

[freako104]

I find the idea almost unimaginable. 9/11 was one thing but at the time of pearl harbor, when so much chaos and death was spreading throughout the world, and army sweeping over our own lands must have seemed even apocalyptic at the time. From that day on literally the entire world was at war. Also we didn't have the comfort at that time of being the most powerful nation on earth. It must have struck fear into the hearts of all Americans of such magnitute that none of us today(who don't remember it) can truly comprehend.

the world was already at war at the time. we didnt get involved until after. may they rest in peace and be in our prayers.

 

[Luis G]

This was the trigger for the conspiracy theories about whether we knew they were coming and "let it happen" so we could get into the war.

That's preciselly what I've heard.

But it is still a shame that many innocent people had died that day.

 

[Inkara1]

the world was already at war at the time. we didnt get involved until after. may they rest in peace and be in our prayers.

The war was by and large confined to Europe before then. There wasn't a whole lot of action to speak of in the Pacific theater before Pearl Harbor.

 

[Gonz]

Now its a debate over whether that sub should have triggered an alert that would have avoided the catastrophic results of the attack.

An hour wouldn't have done squat to stop what happened. Look at my thread. It shows the amount of planes that came in. We were simply overwhelmed & vulnerable. A sad yet magnificent action on the part of teh Japanese.

If we had gone completely code red immediately following the subs discovery, one hour wouldn't have been time to clear 2 ships out of the Harbor. Much less get most of the men back to their posts.

 

[freako104]

The war was by and large confined to Europe before then. There wasn't a whole lot of action to speak of in the Pacific theater before Pearl Harbor.

not even the battle over midway or was that later? i cant quite remember when but I thought that was over the Pacific ocean?

 

[Mirlyn]

An hour wouldn't have done squat to stop what happened. Look at my thread. It shows the amount of planes that came in. We were simply overwhelmed & vulnerable. A sad yet magnificent action on the part of teh Japanese.

If we had gone completely code red immediately following the subs discovery, one hour wouldn't have been time to clear 2 ships out of the Harbor. Much less get most of the men back to their posts.

I have to disagree. I think what Squiggs meant was that an hour warning would have made us more aware and thus somewhat more prepared for what might have happened.

As I see it, "...an alert that would have avoided the catastrophic results of the attack" doesn't mean an hour would have saved Pearl Harbor from any kind of destruction 100%. It means an hour would have been precious time to at least make Pearl Harbor more prepared for the attack....at least somewhat anticipated rather than a straight-out surprise. Even when tornado sirens sound within five minutes of a tornado striking, its still considered critical advance warning. It doesn't prevent people from dying and homes being lost, but it does help minimize the risk of human injury.

Like I said, don't let me put words in Squigg's mouth. This is just as I saw and read it.

Now whether it would be possible to let the word out of the impending attack without causing mass chaos both on and off the base is another debate.

not even the battle over midway or was that later? i cant quite remember when but I thought that was over the Pacific ocean?

Midway was a good six months after Pearl Harbor
http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq81-1.htm

 

[freako104]

Thanks Mirlyn

 

[Gotnolegs]

The war was by and large confined to Europe before then. There wasn't a whole lot of action to speak of in the Pacific theater before Pearl Harbor.

How about the Japanese invasion of China, Hong Kong, Kowloon and the new terrotories?

 

[AlphaTroll]

Maybe they're the 'by' and Europe the 'large'

 

[Sam]

The war was by and large confined to Europe before then. There wasn't a whole lot of action to speak of in the Pacific theater before Pearl Harbor.

FOCLMAO!

Ummm, even if the Pacific wasn''t really involved, how does that equate to 'confined to Europe'? The world consists of: Europe, the Pacific and the USA?

Some dates:

Prior to Pearl Harbour (I'm thinking 1940 and 1941) there was fighting in the following places besides Europe: East Africa, British Somaliland, Iraq (pretty sure they aren't part of Europe ), Syria, Persia (that'd be Iran now of course - also pretty sure they aren't European ), North Africa, Malaya, and SE Asia.

In addition to that: The first Canadian contingent sailed for England on december the 10th 1939. That's two whole years before Pearl Harbour. In fact it....oh yes wait - it was near the beginning of the war.

And, going out on a limb here, cos sadly it's not something we were taught in school, but my parents also taught me that the Australians were involved long before the Americans - but that their involvment tends to be over looked as they were in a lot of the so-called 'behind the scenes' fighting in places like africa (i.e. they weren't included in the 'by' or the 'large' ). Perhaps an Aussie can put me straight on that one?


This whole thread is just another charming example of the abiding american belief that 'World War II' began with Pearl Harbour. Which btw you guys can't even spell

 

[Sam]

If we had gone completely code red immediately following the subs discovery, one hour wouldn't have been time to clear 2 ships out of the Harbor. Much less get most of the men back to their posts.

No but surely it would have allowed you guys time to get a couple more of your own planes up before they got the shit bombed out of them?

Besides, surely the question is not 'would it have helped?' but 'should it have been done anyway?'

 

[AlphaTroll]

FOCLMAO!

And, going out on a limb here, cos sadly it's not something we were taught in school, but my parents also taught me that the Australians were involved long before the Americans - but that their involvment tends to be over looked as they were in a lot of the so-called 'behind the scenes' fighting in places like africa (i.e. they weren't included in the 'by' or the 'large' ). Perhaps an Aussie can put me straight on that one?


This whole thread is just another charming example of the abiding american belief that 'World War II' began with Pearl Harbour. Which btw you guys can't even spell

*ahem*.....would just like to point out that you left out South Africa's involvement......*very hurt*

 

[Sam]

Ooops sorry poppet - blame the website I pulled those countries off!

*hug*

In fact - blame my education, cos that's where I got the canadians and australians from. Although I had to pull off the exact dates - I'm not a memory machine, after all

(speaking of revision......*scoots off*)