Saturdays Vote

[Gato_Solo]

In all cases...it's better to define the problem/issue as thoroughly as possible before even beginning to look for a solution. This, followed by brainstorming, trimming, potential and cost/time analysis will often get you a better answer than what anyone could've come up with at the onset.

Which is why I brought up Chicago. That was quite some time ago, and voter fraud is still going on there, and many other places as well. We're talking almost 50 years...

Takes more time than just shooting off a 'solution', but less time than defending that 'solution' against all-comers, eh?

Since flavio seems to think that ducking and running when asked for his solution is better than coming up with an idea, then that is a moot point.

 

[Leslie]

you have no solution, or you would've posted it by now, thus making your arguments nothing more than hot air and hypocrisy.

Ergo, noone ought ever post in RW again. Unless we're looking for the answer to 2+2. According to Gato, it's all hot air and hypocrisy, moot and pointless.

 

[Gato_Solo]

Ergo, noone ought ever post in RW again. Unless we're looking for the answer to 2+2. According to Gato, it's all hot air and hypocrisy, moot and pointless.

Nope. Only the complaints, and constant focus on words, and not deeds is hypocrisy, hot air, and pointless. Problems with no solutions are always going to be problems, and pointing them out isn't going to make them magically disappear. It's easy to talk the talk, and nobody seems to care about walking the walk...unless they are asked to do it, then they all fall back on the same old tired response..."It's important to know there's a problem so that it can be fixed." My response to that was, "Well, what are you going to do to fix it." That brings us to now. I'm getting tired of explaining that, and even more weary of the conclusions that I see being drawn from it.

 

[Leslie]

I like reading the words, and the pointless hot air. Even spewing some pointless meaningless hot air myself sometimes.
I like reading all the flipsides.
I like seeing the posts and reading the links to the wonky whacked biased websites from both fronts.

As if, should we here on a message board have a solution, any problem would magically disappear. Perhaps if this were your Congress, or a UN meeting, it'd be a mite different, and one would maybe expect some answers/solutions. But it ain't. We're a bunch of people with issues trying to have a natter and a sometimes good meaty debate on a forum to while some time away and maybe learn something.

Speaking for myself, I would have liked to have seen some discussion on this problem, and wish it had been allowed to go forth.

 

[Gato_Solo]

I like reading the words, and the pointless hot air. Even spewing some pointless meaningless hot air myself sometimes.
I like reading all the flipsides.
I like seeing the posts and reading the links to the wonky whacked biased websites from both fronts.

So do I, sometimes, but I also like to see a little work behind the rhetoric. A little substance beyond the crude innuendos and 'righteous indignation' which always results in blame, and no idea of how to fix something.

As if, should we here on a message board have a solution, any problem would magically disappear. Perhaps if this were your Congress, or a UN meeting, it'd be a mite different, and one would maybe expect some answers/solutions. But it ain't. We're a bunch of people with issues trying to have a natter and a sometimes good meaty debate on a forum to while some time away and maybe learn something.

Maybe the problem would go away, maybe it would not. You never know who actually pays attention to these boards...besides us. Hell...if the solution is good enough, you could e-mail somebody who could make the changes needed to fix the problem. Now wouldn't that also cover learning something?

Speaking for myself, I would have liked to have seen some discussion on this problem, and wish it had been allowed to go forth.

It hasn't stopped. It's just slowed down. Some members think I'm just trying to play a game here. I'm not. I'm serious as a heart attack.

 

[MrBishop]

OK... Let's get on with it. I proposed something a while back and got no feedback. I had hoped that it would've brought the thread in a new direction, but so far, that wasn't the case.

The Iraq constitution is different from most other constitutions (Including the American, Canadian, British etc...) in that it was voted on by the populace prior to it becomming in effect.


Do you consider this to be a positive development or a negative one?

 

[A.B.Normal]

Originally Posted by Gato_Solo
It's like I said earlier...You see a pile of crap on the ground. You can ignore it, complain about it, or clean it up/dispose of it properly.

By the way I would get the guy who left the pile of crap to clean up his own mess.

Being told that the pile of crap smells of roses and being told we're not allowed to point that out without having a solution to making it smell better is a "pile of Crap"

Do you consider this to be a positive development or a negative one?

Positive for the US administration if they can convince the US electorate that it means they are doing a good job.

Negative in that it further divides Iraq.Prior to the vote Sunnis may have at least felt they had an option now they are more likely yo see insurgency as an option ,since they had no success with the Constitution.

Negative to stability in the region as Turkey will see a divided Iraq with a Kurdish state next door possibly pulling its Kurdish population toward independants.The Majority Shia influence in Iraq is closely tied to Iran so a Shia led Iraq is a boost to Iran and a loss for Israel.



Caveat:The British are saying that Iran is supplying explosives to the Insurgents "around Basra" ,but Nasra has always been vastley Shia and Iraq has also been anti=Sunni,which means the Iranians are supplying Shias with explosives amd that the insurgency isn't as we've been led to believe "discontented Sunnis ".I have know idea how that will effect any Constitution .

 

[Gato_Solo]

Being told that the pile of crap smells of roses and being told we're not allowed to point that out without having a solution to making it smell better is a "pile of Crap"

So now you put more words in my mouth because you are unwilling, or unable, to suggest a change. Very predictable. Now...where, exactly, did I say that it smells of roses? In fact...where did I mention smell at all?

Positive for the US administration if they can convince the US electorate that it means they are doing a good job.

We have corruption in our own elections. I've stated that before as well. In this very thread. Guess I'm going to have to give up on any intelligent response to the question I raised about finding a solution. You folks seem bound and determined not to let one coherant thought come out other than questioning my motives on a critical issue.

Negative in that it further divides Iraq.Prior to the vote Sunnis may have at least felt they had an option now they are more likely yo see insurgency as an option ,since they had no success with the Constitution.

The Sunnis did have an option before this, during the first national elections, and they let themselves be intimidated by the very insurgents that are now demanding a voice. Strange how that works, innit?

Negative to stability in the region as Turkey will see a divided Iraq with a Kurdish state next door possibly pulling its Kurdish population toward independants.The Majority Shia influence in Iraq is closely tied to Iran so a Shia led Iraq is a boost to Iran and a loss for Israel.

So your solution to the problem is? Oops. Sorry. There I go giving you credit again..and possibly getting myself put on ignore.

Caveat:The British are saying that Iran is supplying explosives to the Insurgents "around Basra" ,but Nasra has always been vastley Shia and Iraq has also been anti=Sunni,which means the Iranians are supplying Shias with explosives amd that the insurgency isn't as we've been led to believe "discontented Sunnis ".I have know idea how that will effect any Constitution .

Umm...if this pans out, and it may, you must not forget one critical detail in all this...Iran HATES the US...Their government will do anything to avoid having one more pro-US country in the region...including arming their rivals. After all..."The enemy of my enemy is my ally"...

 

[MrBishop]

Umh...Gato I think that you're jumping the gun a wee bit.

We have corruption in our own elections. I've stated that before as well. In this very thread. Guess I'm going to have to give up on any intelligent response to the question I raised about finding a solution. You folks seem bound and determined not to let one coherant thought come out other than questioning my motives on a critical issue.

AB wasn't even commenting on you... or your motives for that matter.

I'll have to agree with AB here. If the Iraq constitution manages to shake off the spectre of misconduct in the process and it becomes a viable constitution, then the USA, who engineered the process, will come off smelling like roses.

 

[Gato_Solo]

Umh...Gato I think that you're jumping the gun a wee bit.
AB wasn't even commenting on you... or your motives for that matter.

Read post 147. He quotes me there. The rest was just commenting upon how quick the blame started...

I'll have to agree with AB here. If the Iraq constitution manages to shake off the spectre of misconduct in the process and it becomes a viable constitution, then the USA, who engineered the process, will come off smelling like roses.

 

[MrBishop]

Read post 147. He quotes me there. The rest was just commenting upon how quick the blame started...

Aah...got mixed up in between the quotes, I guess.

So...out of curiosity...how do YOU feel about allowing the populace to vote on a constitution?

 

[Gato_Solo]

Aah...got mixed up in between the quotes, I guess.

So...out of curiosity...how do YOU feel about allowing the populace to vote on a constitution?

I actually think it's a good idea. How the vote is counted, though, leaves something to be desired. I would've preferred biometrics to confirm each vote and voter. It would be a pain in the ass to set up,and cost a pretty penny, but it would stop most of the nonsense about 'rigging' the vote.

 

[MrBishop]

I actually think it's a good idea. How the vote is counted, though, leaves something to be desired. I would've preferred biometrics to confirm each vote and voter. It would be a pain in the ass to set up,and cost a pretty penny, but it would stop most of the nonsense about 'rigging' the vote.

I'm surprised that the purple finger method which worked well in Afghanistan wasn't used in Iraq as well. Cheaper than biometrics..though it does identify those who did vote to those who didn't want them to.

 

[Gato_Solo]

And no ideas from anybody else, eh? Nobody has thought things through beyond the blame stage.

 

[Winky]

won't it be great when years from now, when the whole
middle east is democratic and all fixed up?

then I'm certain we will have to fix the dark continent

 

[A.B.Normal]

won't it be great when years from now, when the whole
middle east is democratic and all fixed up?

then I'm certain we will have to fix the dark continent

You tried and Somolia didn't cooperate.

 

[Gato_Solo]

You tried and Somolia didn't cooperate.

So, A.B....were you there?