Saw a stupid bumper sticker today....

[markjs]

Here's another link you anti gay folks really ought to read, perhaps a much better link than the one I provided in my last post. Damn....expand your horizons, aren't there enough silly reasons to hate in the world without homophobia?

 

[Professur]

I'm not homophobic. I think it's wrong. That doesn't make me homophobic. I think that parading around and shoving your sexual orientation in someone else's face is wrong.

I think it's wrong to consider two people of the same sex as a couple. To give them the same rights as a male/female couple. To allow them to teach their beliefs to my children. That does not make me homophobic.

Every moral, upstanding citizen of the world has an obligation to ensure that their children are brought up in a moral and safe society. Standing up for those morals does not make me a homophobe.

If gays want to exist, I don't hunt them down. If they want to congregate, fine. If they want to call themselves married ... there I draw the line. If they want to adopt and teach their beliefs to children ... there I draw the line. If they want to encourage my kids to be deviants ... there I draw the line.

 

[Gato_Solo]

Once again someone goes for sensationalism and name-calling in order to facilitate their rather simplistic opinion. Instead of lining up facts, they foment hatred. Please use intelligence when using the terms 'homophobic' and 'anti homosexual', as these words do not describe what some of us are saying.

As for the websites, I think both are very biased towards the liberal side of the spectrum, and I tend to argue towards the center.

 

[markjs]

I guess people might figure me gay from my posts. I am not, though I guess I shouldn't care what such folks think anyhow. I do however know many gay people who are find upstanding people. They don't teach their children to be gay nor do they wish it. All of the ones I know would prefer their children be straight, knowing how hard it is being gay. Rather they only teach their children to accept others as they are. Most of the ones I know that have children had them before they admitted to themselves that they were gay. Most of these folks that I know are ore suited to parenthood than many straight folks I know. Personally I'd rather see committed "married" gays, than ones who sleep around and spread AIDS. Of course that is true of straights as well. Another thing I am really sick of is the attitude that AIDS is a punishment on gays. It's only more prevelant with gay men because of the physics of gay sex, which I will not go into because I am sure you can imagine. Obviously straight women who engage in the same type of sexual practices are more at risk as well. For that matter women in general are more likely to get AIDS than men. Does this make it a gay mans and womens disease? If thats so than I guess God approves of lesbians most of all, because they have the lowest rate of HIV infection. I just don't see why gays should be treated differently than straights, but I know I am in the minority. There is going to have to be a lot more Matthew Shepherds in the world before it wakes up.

 

[markjs]

When I say anti gay and homophobic I mostly refer to folks like anakin, but its probably irrelavent anyway. People are not going to change their mind, so I waste my my time tying this to no one. One thing I will say about the web links I provided that is absolute and undisputible fact is that in Greek and Hebrew, the very languages the bible is translated from, there is no word for homosexual. So if that isn't a bit telling about the misinterpretation of the bible, which in modern form contains the word homosexual, I don't know what is.

 

[Luis G]

I don't remember numbers, but i remember i posted once those, about 50,000 people in the world are "true" gays (that means genetic), you know, man with XXY and XXXY chromosomes.

Other types of gay people might just be derived from their education, child traumas and other psychological stuff, please notice that it is mental, not physical like in genetic gays.

Is being gay wrong?, i sincerily don't have an opinion about it.

Do i hate gay people?, no.

Should they scream out they're gay?, no, they can be whatever they want i don't have a problem with that, i've met a couple of gay people and they're very nice, i didn't even knew they were gays until they were sincere with me and told me.

OK, i will make it short, i don't hate gay people, the ones i don't like are those "queens", and travesties (sp??).

 

[[b]]

Gato_Solo:

1. I do not cat-call women. That is a pathetic and ignorant way to treat another human being.

To make sure this is clear, I never said you did. My statement was a generalization and directed to anybody who does cat-call women.

2. If I am with my fiancée, I will walk next to her with my arm around her, hold her hand, or just walk close to her. I do not engage in any other type of behavior in public. To do so is both crude and vulgar. If I see two men walking in similar fashion, I do not get upset.

Holding hands, walking next to each other, even a small kiss doesn't bother me. Full on face sucking and body groping is something that should be saved for more intimate environments. You'll get no argument from me there.

3. The bible is straightforward on homosexuality. It says that you do not do it.

I don't believe in your bible. It's as simple as that. And since this country was founded on the principle of religious freedom you can't use the bible as an arguing point. We all have the right to not be persecuted due to our religious beliefs, so your bible shouldn't be used as the measuring stick against my worth as a person, or my rights as a human.

You can go right on believing that when I die I'm going to hell. I can still love you even if I don't agree with you.

4. By saying that homosexuality is a choice, you have put yourself in a bad spot. Why would anyone choose to be a "victim", or choose to be victimized? Sounds like a psychological abberation to me...It also knocks your statement on discrimination on its ear. Think about it.

Would you please read anything I write twice before you respond? I have never, ever, in any post I've made said that homosexuality is a choice. What I did say was that I didn't care.

But even if it was a choice, how does that make me a victim? Let's go to the dictionary...

vic·tim Pronunciation Key (vktm)
n.
One who is harmed or killed by another: a victim of a mugging.
A living creature slain and offered as a sacrifice during a religious rite.
One who is harmed by or made to suffer from an act, circumstance, agency, or condition: victims of war.
A person who suffers injury, loss, or death as a result of a voluntary undertaking: You are a victim of your own scheming.
A person who is tricked, swindled, or taken advantage of: the victim of a cruel hoax.

Lets see, actually I guess you're right on this one Gato. The third and fourth definitions do prove your point. But only because society would harm me for making this choice. Not because being gay in an of itself makes me a victim, but because you make me a victim.

And, since I never said this was a choice, my argument on discrimination still stands. If you hold me back from doing any one thing you can do based solely on my sexual orientation, you are discriminating against me.

discrimination

n 1: unfair treatment of a person or group on the basis of prejudice [syn: favoritism, favouritism] 2: the cognitive process whereby differences between two or more stimuli are perceived
Source: WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University

dis·crim·i·na·tion Pronunciation Key (d-skrm-nshn)
n.
The act of discriminating.
The ability or power to see or make fine distinctions; discernment.
Treatment or consideration based on class or category rather than individual merit; partiality or prejudice: racial discrimination; discrimination against foreigners.

Know your words and what they mean.

5. This is something I heard in a history class in college, but never had a chance to actually research...
Most societies start to decline when they repeal their sodomy laws...

So that's what happened to Rome.

Professur:

I think that parading around and shoving your sexual orientation in someone else's face is wrong.

Again, could somebody please explain this mentality to me? How am I shoving my sexual orientation on you when you won't let me get married because you're straight and don't think it's right?

To allow them to teach their beliefs to my children.

Huh? Do we go knocking door to door trying to convert people to homosexuality? Umm, no.

And what are the beliefs of gay people that would be so harmful to your children? That all people, regardless of race, gender, age, religion or sexual preference should have the same right to be treated fairly? Woah, let's all close our eyes and cover our ears cause that's real dangerous stuff there.

Every moral, upstanding citizen of the world has an obligation to ensure that their children are brought up in a moral and safe society. Standing up for those morals does not make me a homophobe.

Well, I'm glad my parents didn't have your moral values. I wouldn't want to bring up any child to hate somebody just because they intimately love someone of the same sex.

If gays want to exist, I don't hunt them down.

Well at least I don't have to worry about bow season.

If they want to congregate, fine. If they want to call themselves married ... there I draw the line. If they want to adopt and teach their beliefs to children ... there I draw the line. If they want to encourage my kids to be deviants ... there I draw the line.

Who are you to draw those lines? What right do you have to say I can't be married, that I can't adopt a child? And what's the deal about gay people teaching your kids to be deviants? We're not Nazis trying to take over the world, we're just regular people who want the same rights you have.

 

[[b]]

Originally posted by Luis G
the ones i don't like are those "queens", and travesties (sp??).

ROFL, actually it's transvestite. But I've seen some transvestites that were indeed travesties.

 

[Luis G]

Must remind you that my primary language is spanish (read my location), i don't know all the words.

 

[[b]]

That's ok Luis. I just couldn't help myself when I saw that. Reminded of a time in drama class when a German exchange student who was to play a chicken in the skit we were doing turned to me and asked, "What does an American chicken say?" I'd never thought that the language barrier extended to animals as well.

 

[Luis G]

Wasn't he talking about a coward?

BTW, now you made me think about it, what's the name of the sounds that chicken do?

 

[Monsieur DeLarge]

Well, by and large I'm not too bothered about homosexuality myself, as long as the people involved are consenting adults and my own back passage is left out of their nocturnal shenanigans. However.....

Originally posted by Anakin
"P.S. Gay people are going to hell."

Though it may bother some people, theologically this is correct - if there is a Christian God, and therefore a Heaven and Hell, then it's been stated explicitly in the (admittedly rather xenophobic and misogynistic) Bible that homosexuals are damned to purgatory. I think gay Christians need to sit down and get their conflicting beliefs reconciled, although of course agnostic pooftahs are in the clear.

Originally posted by Cleveland
"Like I said, keep it to yourself.... dont force it on me."

This is something I have a small issue with, and it isn't just confined to chocolate-stabbing. I find all alternative lifestyles a lot less annoying than the infuriating positive discrimination and political correctness that comes with it. I don't believe there's a local government in the Western world that would support a "Straight Pride" march through its streets, but Toronto, San Fransisco, Sydney et al will give backing and assistance to Gay Pride marches. Although I do admit that backdoor butchers are [offensive sweeping stereotype] very glamorous, effervescent and better at throwing street parties[/offensive sweeping stereotype] than non-fairies.

However, how exactly can you justify something like The Gay Olympics? Sports have absolutely bugger all (pun intended) to do with lifestyle choice, and since fags can compete in regular Olympics alongside the non-hellbound, why should they be allowed to discriminate in the other direction? As far as I can see, every time jobby-wheechers go out of their way to separate themselves from normals, they do as much to perpetuate the hostility and abuse that they claim they're fighting so hard to eradicate. You either get equal treatment in society, and give up your Shirt Lifters-only activities, or you continue to ride the northern line and get the same treatment you always have from those who frown on keg pipe cosmonauts.


Thanking you,
MDL and his Dictionary Of Euphemisms To Make Your Grandmother Blush™

 

[[b]]

Monsieur DeLarge,

While I appreciate your input in the matter, I would also appreciate it if you would refrain from the less than flattering terms you use to refer to homosexuals.

I've done my best as the one gay person in this fight to keep it clean and not slump to referring to straight people by any derogatory euphemisms.

Please respect the forum and let's keep this clean.

 

[MitchSchaft]

I do however know many gay people who are find upstanding people.

That's not the issue at all. Flamers are people, too, regardless.
Being gay is the issue.

 

[ris]

i don't see how being gay is an issue.

all i know is people, what they have as sexual orientation, political direction or religious belief is nothing to do with me.

i think i must be ignorant because i don't see any wrong in people being gay. i don't even see a moral question; i don't follow the bible so i can't take a moral code from that, the government says its ok, gay people aren't serious sexual predators or dangers to society, they don't actively recruit or brainwash.

what is there for me to dislike? that they do something different from me, or from what is considered regular? if that's all it took i'd be a very lonely, empty person.

instead i choose to celebrate the diversity of the human condition, in all its different forms.

 

[[b]]

Thank you so much ris.

That's the absolute basis of everything I've been trying to say.

Thanks again.

 

[markjs]

I fear this whole debate is just an exercise in futility. Until people stop teaching their children to hate those who are different, or even disdain or fear or just basically to judge others, based on something that effects them not one iota, we will have ignorance and persecution.

 

[MitchSchaft]

It is futile until people learn right from wrong. Teaching my kid right from wrong is not considered hate.

 

[ris]

i'm sorry that you feel it is wrong to be gay mitch.

i'd prefer to teach them beauty, diversity, love, for all things on the earth. teach tolerance, respect and non-judgement.

hold your own beliefs, but allow them to form their own.

 

[Cleveland]

One indisputable fact that proves Gay is not right.

Two gay men CANNOT reproduce. Two Gay women CANNOT reproduce. Nature prevents it.