Solar panels don't work

jimpeel

Well-Known Member
For those who are screaming at their computer right now, simply read on and find out why this is true.

It seems that shadowing from any source is multiplied exponentially over the array. That shadow can be as brazen as full shadow or as subtle as a fine coat of dust.

SOURCE

Solar Panels Don't Work!

Written by: Bill Gunderson 11/02/12 - 8:54 AM EDT
Tickers in this article: FSLR
NEW YORK (TheStreet) -- As one solar company after another goes out of business, here is what investors do not know and promoters will not tell you: Solar panels do not work that well.

Sometimes not at all. But for several years, most solar systems, big and small, were so heavily subsidized, they were practically free. So lots of people did not really care.

Not enough to check the output of their systems. The few who did often had a big surprise.

Shares of First Solar (FSLR) recently took a 10% hit on one day after the company told investors its panels made in 2008-2009 had problems. Here is how the stock has performed over the years:
138092.include


It is not a surprise that First Solar's panels failed. It is surprising anyone found out.

As we shall see.

Solar systems fail in a lot of different ways. Let's look at three.

Dirt is No. 1. Google was among the first to figure this out, maybe because Google was among the first to do a large-scale solar array.

Unlike the owners of most solar systems, Google was eager to learn about how its system performed. Six months after installing its system, Google learned it was only getting about half of the power it expected.

That was the first shock.

The second was realizing that a large solar array was not just one system, but thousands. Each panel a mini-power plant. And the only way to figure out if the individual panels were working was to test each one.

There go your solar savings.

The gang at Google figured out that the farmer next door had plowed a field, kicking up the dirt, knocking down its power. Solar panels have to be cleaned, sometimes often.

And the place where they need the most cleaning is where solar panels work the best: The desert.

But that is where water is scarce and expensive.

There go your solar savings.

Lousy panels are No. 2. Remember Solyndra? Before its well-publicized collapse, Solyndra was well known for its tube-shaped products that were supposed to collect solar power directly from above, and indirectly, reflected from below.

In all the stories about Solyndra, no one talked about how shadows from the tubes cut down on the power.

They found out the hard way in Livermore, Calif. There a movie theater got a lot of attention for installing a roof top solar array -- first of its kind when it was installed in 2009. A year later, technicians found out the system was producing 25% less power than projected.

The movie theater had no idea. I'm not sure they ever found out.

The only laboratory that ever tested the actual performance of Solyndra products figured it out.

But it was in Germany and did not receive much attention. Said one energy web site:

the report claims the Solyndra module's shadow blocked most if not all of the sunlight before hitting the reflector foil installed below the module, allowing only a small portion of reflected sunlight to hit the backside of the module.

This is the same place where 100 reporters covered President Obama's visit there in 2010, and not one took a moment to figure out why Solyndra's auditors said the company was "not a going concern."

Like First Solar's panels, how would you know? You don't.

No. 3 is this: The darn things don't work -- at all. In San Diego, the local Space theater and museum asked some people to check its panels. As usual, they were installed with lots of fanfare.
But one year later, they were surprised that squirrels and trees had reduced their solar output to zero.

A public utility in a southern state had the same experience. A solar company wanted to field test a new energy product, and the engineers at the utility said they could test it on their system.

Soon, 10 engineers were tromping around the roof of the utility's headquarters, looking for best place to hook up their device.

"These panels don't work," said one of the engineers with the new product. "There is no power coming out of these panels."

Engineers for the utility said "Your instruments are wrong. We are sure the panels work."

So the utility's engineers checked with their instruments.

Sure enough: Nothing.

These stories go on and on and on. They don't work but no one cares because most people put them up for the publicity and marketing. Not energy. The movie theater Web site brags it has: "the second largest solar power system on the roof of a movie theatre anywhere in the world!"
The largest is on one of its other theaters.

Solar promoters consider themselves part of a political movement to save the planet. They do not tolerate naysayers.

That is why it is still so easy to find stories that say the non-performance of solar equipment "really looks like a non-story." That is what one analyst said after First Solar's stock recently took a 10% hit in one day after the company revealed problems with its products.

Here's a bonus reason No. 4: Shade. A shadow on a solar array not only knocks out power to that panel, it also shuts down a wide area of panels around it.

Listen to the National Renewable Energy Laboratories: "the reduction in power from shading half of one cell is equivalent to removing a cell active area 36 times the shadow's actual size."

Do your own test: Ask your neighbors if they know how shadows hurt solar panels. Most do not.

Some companies install monitors on each panel. But monitor makers find that the very existence of their product is an admission of problems in that industry. And that is the last thing the True Believers want anyone to hear about.

Especially investors.

That is why I shorted First Solar at $121 in March of 2011 -- and said so on my radio show and in my newsletter.

And that is why investors should stay away from betting on their resurgence.

This article is commentary by an independent contributor, separate from TheStreet's regular news coverage.
 

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
The only place they can reliably work is the desert southwest. Unfortunately, not everybody has enough roof space for about 200 panels, which would run your home
 

jimpeel

Well-Known Member
jim can you find the data/sources he is citing?

Yes.

The National Renewable Energy Laboratory is here:

http://www.nrel.gov/

The quoted article wherein the statement "the reduction in power from shading half of one cell is equivalent to removing a cell active area 36 times the shadow's actual size." is contained is here:

http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy09osti/46001.pdf

See pages 2 and 3.

Another study and the methodology employed.

Photovoltaic Shading Testbed for Module-Level Power Electronics

http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy12osti/54876.pdf

Solyndra module under-performance and self-shading:

http://guntherportfolio.com/2010/06/solyndra-underperforms-in-photovoltaic-module-test/

There is a link to the German study which is in German but you could use a machine translator such as babelfish Google, or Yahoo to translate it to English.

THIS LINK takes you to a translated synopsis which states:

But the disadvantages are significant, as the TEC found in a comparison of several photovoltaic modules. The main problem is that the Solyndra tubes depending on the sun more or less cast large shadows on the reflective foil. Accordingly, only a small portion of the sunlight to be reflected. In addition, the annual yield of the module is compared with the faces module types (monocrystalline, polycrystalline and amorphous silicon) are much lower. While moving the values ​​of the surface module types from 964.2 to 976.9 kWh / kWp, the value of the Solyndra module is with 893.1 kWh / kWp well below the current standard.
 

2minkey

bootlicker
hmm. well perhaps my solar panel fantasy is crumbling. so, shade is always cataclysmic and we should all smash our solar panels right now?

gee gunther seems to be getting a lot of mileage out of one study doesn't he? is he one of those financial planner guys that advertises and/or has an investing show on the same radio station as rush limbaugh? btw, you might not want to cite him as a source.

it would be really nice to see you post something - anything - that wasn't backfill for your long held tribalist conclusions about the nature of everything under the sun.

is there any alternative to conventional fossil fuels that is not a piece of shit?
 

jimpeel

Well-Known Member
hmm. well perhaps my solar panel fantasy is crumbling. so, shade is always cataclysmic and we should all smash our solar panels right now?

That is for you to decide based upon your own independent research.

You asked for cites and sites and I provided them; yet you are still not happy.

gee gunther seems to be getting a lot of mileage out of one study doesn't he? is he one of those financial planner guys that advertises and/or has an investing show on the same radio station as rush limbaugh? btw, you might not want to cite him as a source.

You are apparently confusing Gunther and Gunderson. You and Biden. Gunther merely cites the same study that Gunderson did.

it would be really nice to see you post something - anything - that wasn't backfill for your long held tribalist conclusions about the nature of everything under the sun.

Pun intended?

is there any alternative to conventional fossil fuels that is not a piece of shit?

They all have their limitations. I used to be a big proponent of Hydrogen until I did my own independent research on the subject. I now see it as a non-viable alternative.

Every -- as in EVERY-- form of energy is opposed by one environmental group or another. Wind kills birds. Solar kills tortoises. Wave technology kills fish.

Geothermal is viable despite its drawbacks based on materials. There just isn't enough of it dispersed around the nation. It works fine in Iceland but the maintenance costs are high.
 

2minkey

bootlicker
it's not that i'm not happy jim, it's that you have a long history of posting assertions that appear to have more to do with tribal scripture than facts and logic. it's like how everybody in the room suspects the fat guy when candy goes missing.

i realized i was making the pun and viewed it as regrettable, but not to the extent that i was going to bother to edit it.

it's nice to see that you will consider energy sources other than those that cost us trillions in moronic wars overseas.
 

jimpeel

Well-Known Member
I do the research and I make a decision. You asked if I could provide you the cites and sites and I did.

If all of my assertions are "tribal scripture", to use your words; why was I a hydrogen proponent before I did some independent research and found that the flaws severely outnumber the advantages? That decision was based on sound evidence, not "tribal scripture."

War for oil? Not since WWII.

If oil were the reason, why didn't we occupy Iraq in 91 after we scattered them out of Kuwait?

Why did we go home?

Why didn't we invade sooner that 2001?
 

Winky

Well-Known Member
Romney will put boots on the ground in Iran
and if need be Venezuela, to get our cheap oil
 

2minkey

bootlicker
if you don't understand how the vast majority of our efforts in the middle east have been about oil, then i can't help you. your follow up questions in this matter strike as monumentally naive.

most of your concerns do come directly out of the "conservative fringe absurdities playbook." anti-environmentalism. birtherism. sharia law. fags. cops. minorities who don't want to become exactly like you. et cetera. hydrogen may be the exception.

but i do thank you for providing some evidence backing up your claims on solar panels. guess i will rely more on child labor when i buy the spread out in the sticks...
 
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