Stem Cell Research - A moral question

MrBishop

Well-Known Member
Stem cell research - In the face of extraordinary advances in the prevention, diagnosis, and treatment of
human diseases, devastating illnesses such as heart disease, diabetes, cancer, and diseases
of the nervous system, such as Parkinson’s Disease and Alzheimer’s Disease, continue to
deprive people of health, independence, and well-being. Research in human develop-mental
biology has led to the discovery of human stem cells (precursor cells that can give
rise to multiple tissue types), including embryonic stem (ES) cells, embryonic germ (EG)
cells, and adult stem cells. Recently, techniques have been developed for the in vitro
culture of stem cells, providing unprecedented opportunities for studying and under-standing
human embryology. As a result, scientists can now carry out experiments aimed
at determining the mechanisms underlying the conversion of a single, undifferentiated
cell, the fertilized egg, into the different cells comprising the organs and tissues of the
human body. Although it is impossible to predict the outcomes, scientists and the public
will gain immense new knowledge in the biology of human development that will likely
hold remarkable potential for therapies and cures.

Stem cell research has a huge potential for good. This may include the repair of damaged nerve cells in the paralysed, the healing of the blind, cures for mental illness, lab-grown skin for burn victims, cloned hands,arms,fingers etc... Cloned organs for self-transplants (Grow your own heart from your own tissues in order to replace the one that you have which doesn't work) etc etc...


We're talking HUGE potential here.

You would think that the matter would be pushed through to legality ASAP, but that isn't the case. Why?
1) Human cloning - people are afraid of the potential for cloning a whole human being for nefarious reasons
2) Pro-lifers - They don't like the fact that the best source for stem-cells are aborted foetuses.
3) The law - governments are jumping around and being afraid. Afraid of the potential for good vs. evil? No...afraid that they'll piss off the wrong people and NOT get re-elected.

Opponents of the new rules for government-funded stem-cell research are right that the rules are irrational. The rules forbid government-funded researchers to extract stem cells from human embryos, but they allow those researchers—on alternate Tuesdays when the wind is from the northeast and at least three members of five different review boards have dreamed of a fish—to use stem cells extracted by others.

Opponents of stem-cell research believe that "a microscopic clump of cells" (the New York Times' description of an embryo at the stage when stem cells are removed) has the same moral claims as a fully formed human being. Proponents believe that a clump of cells has no serious moral claim compared with people who "feel want, taste grief, need friends" (Shakespeare's description of a human being). No one believes that a clump of cells is just a clump of cells in private hands but becomes a full human being in the hands of a government grantee. You don't absolve yourself of murder by hiring a hit man.

Comments?




http://www.aaas.org/spp/sfrl/projects/stem/report.pdf
 

MrBishop

Well-Known Member
Latest news items:
http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/10/28/repro031028

Bill C-13 prohibits:
  • any kind of buying or selling of eggs, sperm and embryos;
  • sex selection unless it's to prevent a sex-linked disease;
  • paying surrogate mothers for more than lost income or expenses.
The bill, which is expected to pass, may not become law. It still has to go to the Senate for approval, and Parliament may rise by the end of next week.
 

Squiggy

ThunderDick
Still pondering the subject but this jumped out at me...

paying surrogate mothers for more than lost income or expenses.

Is this to protect the wealthy from having to pay fair market value for the service? Somehow, it doesn't flush that the doctor will be rewarded more for his/her service than the surrogate herself....:confuse3:
 

MrBishop

Well-Known Member
Squiggy said:
Still pondering the subject but this jumped out at me...



Is this to protect the wealthy from having to pay fair market value for the service? Somehow, it doesn't flush that the doctor will be rewarded more for his/her service than the surrogate herself....:confuse3:

Nah...here's the issue with that one. In the USA, the price for surrogate motherhood can be $25,000.00 plus medical expences and lost salary, where in Canada, it is $8,000.00 period.

The difference in price stems from the fact that in the USA, the surrogate mother has to pay for medical appointments and medecine and the actual birth (up here, the taxpayer pays for it all). Not to mention the CAN/USA exchange rate. We're a bargain!

That little bit from the bill is only a small portion of the whole...the law-to-be covers everythign from half-human/half-animal breeding to the sale of testes for organ donation purposes.
 

breaky

New Member
very interesting subject and it has got me thinking a bit, going to have to do some more reading on the matter before i could really make a desicion, there are a few considerations invovled
 

breaky

New Member
ok a quick look led me to this :-
The World Today - Friday, 10 October , 2003 12:30:59
Reporter: Ben Knight
ELIZABETH JACKSON: Australia is fast becoming an international leader in the field of stem cell research. While legislators in Europe and the US continue to restrict embryonic stem cell research, Australia is seen as comparatively liberal in its approach. And some of the world's leading stem cell researchers, currently meeting in Melbourne, say that Europe's loss will be Australia's gain.

From Melbourne, Ben Knight reports.

BEN KNIGHT: Late last year, after days and nights of debate, and a rare conscience vote, the Australian Parliament passed laws giving Australian scientists access to frozen surplus human embryos and their valuable stem cells.

While it did make some restrictions, like banning therapeutic cloning, and the use of new human embryos, it essentially gave Australian researchers a secure supply of embryonic stem cells, for at least two years.

But in Europe, it's been a far different story. Germany, Italy, Ireland and Austria are leading the charge for an outright ban on embryonic stem cells. And European scientists are feeling the effects.

Professor Christine Mummery, from the Hubrecht Laboratory in Holland, made history last year, when she and her team created a beating heart from stem cells. She's currently in Melbourne with some of the world's top stem cell researchers and she says it's becoming more and more difficult to do it in the EU.

CHRISTINE MUMMERY: Europe is very fragmented on this and many of us believe that it is a move by certain countries to actually block stem cell research in general. It's a very tricky way of getting in the backdoor and actually blocking our research.

BEN KNIGHT: The other powerhouse of medical research, the United States, also has tight restrictions on the use of these cells, banning the creation of any new lines for use by scientists and restricting federal money – all of which means that Australia is poised to pick up new researchers, and research, that might otherwise have been done overseas

http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2003/s964515.htm
 

MrBishop

Well-Known Member
Just as a quick FYI for those reading this...EC (Embriotic stem-cells), come from embryos with about 100 cells intact. The only way to get these currently, is to use 'unused' fertilized ova stemming from fertility clinics.

For the lay-person. Couples trying to have kids through fertility clinics use several ova, try to fertilize all of them. pick the ones that are most viable and use them to impregnate the woman.

Once the couple has said that they have enough kids...there are leftover fertilized/frozen ova. The couple is asked what they want to do with them. They can;

1) Destroy them
2) Give them away to friends
3) Give them away to strangers
4) Donate them to stem-cell research

(This list isn't incidental...it's in order of actual outcome).

If they decide to go for the stem-cell harvesting...GREAT! You can take the stem-cells from EC procedures and not only create more stem cells (in vitro) than in the other two methods (Adult and Abortesus), but the cells created have more potential.
EC cells can be used to create all cell types (from blood to brain/nerve)

What really drives me nuts is the pro-lifers war on stem-cell research. Don't they realize that the only way to get stem-cells from abortesus is through a VERY limited timeline (4-5 weeks of gestation only). Because of this...only about 1% of stem cells come from abortesus. For this 1%...they're willing to block ALL RESEARCH!!!

All this for something about the size of a head of a pin.
 

Ms Ann Thrope

New Member
MrBishop said:
What really drives me nuts is the pro-lifers war on stem-cell research. Don't they realize that the only way to get stem-cells from abortesus is through a VERY limited timeline (4-5 weeks of gestation only). Because of this...only about 1% of stem cells come from abortesus. For this 1%...they're willing to block ALL RESEARCH!!!

All this for something about the size of a head of a pin.

Do you suppose they came to their position rationally? Is there ANYTHING rational about belief in a higher power? :rolleyes:
 

MrBishop

Well-Known Member
Ms Ann Thrope said:
Do you suppose they came to their position rationally? Is there ANYTHING rational about belief in a higher power? :rolleyes:

Theres something to be said about a set of morals grouped together and called 'religion'. Belief in the higher power has little to do with the issue in this case...it's the whole "Abortion=Murder and Murder=Sin" thing.

I doubt that they've even read the issue, much less understand the source of these stem cells.
 

Ms Ann Thrope

New Member
MrBishop said:
Theres something to be said about a set of morals grouped together and called 'religion'. Belief in the higher power has little to do with the issue in this case...it's the whole "Abortion=Murder and Murder=Sin" thing.

I doubt that they've even read the issue, much less understand the source of these stem cells.

I have nothing against religion, per se. Some of my closest friends believe in God. However, I have yet to meet a pro-lifer that was an atheist. It is all too easy to follow the path prescribed for you by someone else and not to question the wisdom or logic therein. The protests against stem cell research appear to me to be driven by unquestioning blind faith. :shrug:
 

MrBishop

Well-Known Member
Ms Ann Thrope said:
I have nothing against religion, per se. Some of my closest friends believe in God. However, I have yet to meet a pro-lifer that was an atheist. It is all too easy to follow the path prescribed for you by someone else and not to question the wisdom or logic therein. The protests against stem cell research appear to me to be driven by unquestioning blind faith. :shrug:
:wave: Pro-choice/Anti-Abortion agnostic
 

MrBishop

Well-Known Member
Ms Ann Thrope said:
you're welcome to hedge your bets, my dear...I understand... I was an agnostic myself once upon a time...but am now a devout atheist! :rofl: :D

I work for the church...I've studied theology...I don't think that I qualify for the secret handshake yet. As for hedging my bets...whatever. I'm not worried about the afterlife so much as for the issue of

"I've looked at the universe and it's just too damn organized"
 

BeardofPants

New Member
Heh. I'm juggling between atheism, and agnosticism... Was a hard-core atheist, but then I decided that it was too arrogant of me to presume the answers. :shrug: Having said that, the Christian god is a figment of the overly imaginative mind of some horny male. :p


As for the topic - I'm all for stem-cell research.
 
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