The "rich" needs a tax break

Jeslek

Banned
This goes for both US and Canada. In the United States, 96.1% of all taxes are paid by those making an income of over $49,800. That seems just criminal.

http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/52864.htm

WASHINGTON - President Bush yesterday unveiled a bold, $674 billion tax-relief plan - and said he wants to turbocharge tax cuts by fast-tracking them because the struggling economy just can't wait.
"If tax relief is good enough for Americans three years from now, it is good enough for Americans today," said Bush, who wants Uncle Sam to send most parents a $400 check for each child by this summer.

Bush's plan calls for freeing individuals from any federal taxes on stock dividends and drastically speeding up many tax cuts that were passed by Congress in 2001 not slated to take effect until 2006 and 2009.

Bush wants those tax cuts to be retroactive to Jan. 1, including hiking the per-child tax credit by $400 for a total of $1,000, slashing individual tax rates and cutting the marriage penalty.

Bush ordered the Treasury Department to have new tax tables ready right away so workers would pay lower rates - and get more take-home pay - as soon as Congress passes the plan.

Democrats pounced on the plan as a tax cut for the rich - "an irresponsible, ineffective, ideologically driven wish list," fumed Sen. Joe Lieberman (D-Conn.).

But White House spokesman Ari Fleischer took on that class-warfare argument and said Americans who earn over $49,800 are due relief since they pay 96.1 percent of all taxes.

Overall, the White House estimates that 92 million taxpayers would save an average $1,083 this year and the number of Americans who pay no taxes at all would rise by 3 million to 53 million.

Bush's plan is likely to pass the House, where Republicans now have a comfortable majority, but Senate Republicans predict he'll have to make compromises to get it through there.

The per-child checks - which recall the popular $300 rebates from Bush's first tax plan - cover kids up to their 17th birthday. The full amount goes to couples earning up to $110,000 and single parents at $75,000 or less - after that it starts phasing out.

Married couples would be able to immediately claim double the standard deduction for singles, instead of waiting until 2009.

All individual tax-rate cuts voted by Congress in 2001 would kick in now, instead of being phased in through 2006, with the top rate cut to 35 percent from 38.6 percent.

Nearly half the cost of Bush's plan - $374 billion - would go to ending taxes on dividends paid by individuals.

The dividend relief would be a big boost for New York taxpayers, who account for 8.5 percent of all dividend income reported on federal tax returns and could be a boon for Wall Street.

But it could also be a major headache for New York City and New York state, which already face giant budget gaps and would be under pressure to follow suit and stop taxing dividends - which could cost the city $175 million in revenue and hundreds of millions more to the state.

It would also be a break for Bush personally, since he'd have saved $16,511 on his 2001 dividend payments of $43,805, while Vice President Dick Cheney would have saved $104,823 on dividend payments of $278,103, according to Bloomberg news service.
Now I don't consider someone rich until he or she makes more than $500,000 a year (I think of those between 150 and 500 as well off), but I definitely want to see the government stop punishing people that work harder.

Even our economics professor today mentioned something like this... Because Canada is more ... generous with the welfare and unemployment insurance (which comes from money stolen by the government from other people), Canada's unemployment rate has been consistently higher than the United States'.

Because I work only part of the year, I don't currently pay any federal taxes. I am forced to pay for Canadian Pension Plan and for Unemployment Insurance though. Grr. But I can sense that I won't live in Ontario for long after I graduate. Maybe Alberta should I stay in Canada? My dad currently pays 45% or so in taxes (federal and provincial combined). Good times huh?

For crying out loud, give those that work a tax break. Stop punishing them.
 

Jeslek

Banned
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/jonahgoldberg/jg20030108.shtml

New York Democratic Rep. Charles Rangel proposed legislation last week calling to renew the military draft on the premise that Americans need to have a "shared sense of sacrifice." He doesn't actually want a draft; he just wants to scare people out of a war on Iraq. But that's a conversation for another day, or never -since the legislation is a gimmick with no chance of passing.

But the notion of shared sacrifice -Americans of all walks of life having an equal stake in something -is an interesting and good one. Indeed, it's worth contemplating as Washington begins its next round of food fights over tax cuts.

President Bush's new economic plan is eliciting the usual howls from Democrats. "The president is using the word `stimulus' … as a Trojan horse to wheel in some of their pet projects for their rich friends," complained House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif.

Indeed, Democrats howled nearly a full week before the plan was actually made public. But that's OK, their anger toward tax cuts hasn't changed in decades. And that is how it should be. Democrats don't like tax cuts and Republicans do: This is one of the few reliable ways you can tell the difference between the two species.

Now, there's stuff I don't like in the president's plan, either. For example, I don't have much use for paying people $3,000 to get a job. It seems to me getting a job is its own reward. If you need three grand to get one, you're not going to keep it long.

Also, I only like half of the president's motives for eliminating the tax on stock dividends. The White House is clearly hoping that a repeal of the tax on dividends will entice skittish investors back into the market, and it probably will. But, as a general proposition, Washington shouldn't be in the business of trying to goose the stock market.

The thing I like about repealing the dividend taxis that it should help encourage corporate responsibility -something I could swear Democrats cared about until recently. The argument is that if dividends aren't taxed, shareholders will demand dividends from management. This will discourage CEOs from what some call "empire building" -spending cash on unnecessary acquisitions.

CEOs aren't too different from congressmen; if they have a pile of money sitting around, they will spend it. Also, forcing corporations to give that money back to shareholders will encourage them to issue stock instead of issuing huge piles of debt, which is what can lead to Enron-style trouble.

But there's one `problem' with eliminating the dividend tax that doesn't bother me at all. It will disproportionately make rich people richer, as would President Bush's proposal to lower income tax rates across the board. The Democrats are furious about the fact the rich will get richer, and Republicans seem embarrassed about it. I don't understand either sentiment.

Indeed, I bet if we knew for a fact that giving Bill Gates $1 trillion from the U.S. Treasury would somehow make us all richer and the economy stronger, Democrats would be against it. It's just unfair to make the rich any richer in their eyes. And, I bet the Republicans would somehow pretend they didn't really give Gates $1 trillion. Me, I figure if it's good economic policy, who cares if the rich get richer?

And that brings me back to this notion of shared sacrifice. The first thing to keep in mind is that it is almost impossible to cut any tax without making the people who pay that tax richer. And, rich people pay a lot more taxes than poor people do.

According to the Tax Foundation, more than five out of every six dollars collected by the federal government were paid by the top 25 percent of taxpayers. You need a gross adjusted income of $55,225 to qualify as a member of the top quarter. Now, if all these people qualify as "rich," so be it. If cutting their taxes makes them richer, so be that, too.

The top 1 percent, by the way, pay 37 percent of the total income taxes collected by the federal government. Democrats keep talking about how little poor people will get from an income tax cut. That's true -because poor people pay so little in income taxes.

How about creating a tax system in this country that makes everybody feel like they're paying their fair share? I don't want to raise taxes on anybody -I want to cut them for everybody. But having a system where vast segments of the working population are clients of the government and a small number are funders of it is not only institutionalized class warfare, it's the exact opposite of shared sacrifice.
 

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
Just as soon as someone points out a poor guy that pays the salary of another, besides government, then I'll be glad to jump on the screw the rich bandwagon. Until then, let the rich, who pay the taxes to begin with, keep more of their income, it may become mine.
 

Professur

Well-Known Member
Just a little heads-up on money. The rich employ the poor. The more money they get to keep from the gov't, the more people they can afford to pay, thereby keeping them from the welfare rolls. Welfare that the rich would have wound up paying anyways. The net of the whole thing is that the poor end up working for their money instead of receiving a handout. they get paid out of the same pockets. But now, they're putting something back.

Get it?
 

flavio

Banned
Just to take issue with a few of the specifics so far...

First the two articles linked are from very biased sources. You're not trying pawn these off as impartial are you? I don't know how anyone could manage to think for themselves if you depend on sources like these for news. Bad way to start off.

Second the figure is thrown out:

In the United States, 96.1% of all taxes are paid by those making an income of over $49,800. That seems just criminal.

Actually that's pretty much a totally useless statistic with without any other numbers. To make it have any relevance you need to also know what percentage of total income people making over $49k generate.

If you can say "people who make over $49k generate X% of the income in the country but pay 96.1% of all taxes" then we would have something to go on.

Third you say:

For crying out loud, give those that work a tax break. Stop punishing them.

Are you saying that people who make under $49k don't work? or don't work as hard? Either way we know that's not true right?

One of the main problems with the whole model is that the amount or difficulty of work people do does not necessarily directly correlate to their income.

Fourth Professor says:

The more money they get to keep from the gov't, the more people they can afford to pay,

We can hardly use this as an absolute truth. Many times the more money they get to keep....they keep.
 

Gato_Solo

Out-freaking-standing OTC member
Fact of the matter is...nobody needs a tax break. What needs to happen is to simplify the tax laws we already have, and don't allow any loop-holes.
 
B

Bubba

Guest
Gonz said:
flavio said:
Many times the more money they get to keep....they keep.

They earned it, so it's theirs to begin with, let 'em have it.

yuou want numbers, here

if we are talking about rich people, most of them will prolly rot in hell for the way they got it. being rich often means taking a large bowell movement on those who don't have it for many people that have money. once they get money, they don't care what they do to poor people. look at the max factor guy that skipped out for raping women for example. they care mostly about themselves and their money. pooping on the populace means nothing to them.
 

Jeslek

Banned
Gato_Solo said:
Fact of the matter is...nobody needs a tax break. What needs to happen is to simplify the tax laws we already have, and don't allow any loop-holes.
Agreed. Just put in a 17% flat tax rate accross the board for every person and that be that. If we run into budget deficits, start thinking about closing down 90% of the federal government. Start with the Federal Reserve.
 

flavio

Banned
Jerrek said:
Gato_Solo said:
Fact of the matter is...nobody needs a tax break. What needs to happen is to simplify the tax laws we already have, and don't allow any loop-holes.
Agreed. Just put in a 17% flat tax rate accross the board for every person and that be that. If we run into budget deficits, start thinking about closing down 90% of the federal government. Start with the Federal Reserve.

Oh yeah, that's going to happen :retard2:
 

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
Bubba said:
most of them will prolly rot in hell for the way they got it. being rich often means taking a large bowell movement on those who don't have it for many

Pullll-eassssssse

Most people worked their asses off to get where they are. Some dumb luck & a lot of hard work, unless you're discussing Ted Kennedy.
 

PT

Off 'Motherfuckin' Topic Elite
I agree with Gonz, I'm sick and tired of hearing people bitch about the rich. Sure, some of them inherited a fortune from the family, some of them cheated or stole to get it, but as Gonz said, there are quite a few that worked their asses off to get it. Just because you don't have the motivation or means to become a millionaire, quit your bitchin about those that do.
 

Jeslek

Banned
Of the rich people I know, except for a few single exceptions, most of them work pretty must 24/7. I know, because I worked 6 day weeks (8 to 10 hours a day) for the past semester and I talked to a lot of them at odd hours. They WORK. They don't sit back and relax. Some of them don't have a real life I would say. If that is your choice and you become rich through a lot of hard work, then I HATE to see the government punish them. And I hate to say this so bluntly, but the people who bitch about the rich are usually those that are too fucking lazy to get off their ass and do something in life. Read: usually.

And if you inherited a lot of money... Good for you. I still think there should be no inheritance tax, and you should be able to do with it whatever pleases you. I could use a million or so right now to start a few companies... :cool:
 

flavio

Banned
The premises in this thread are wonderful. Jerrek knows a couple rich people who work 24 hours a day/ 7 days a week and that is what we should base all laws everywhere on. They don't eat, sleep, hang out with their kids or wife, watch movies or tv, have sex, go to church, vote, shit, masturbate, pet their dog, shop, drive, shower, or even brush their teeth and that should be the basis for ALL LAWS EVERYWHERE.

I have a friend back in Ohio who is a certified mechanic at a Honda dealership who puts in about 60hrs/week for about $40k/year to support his wife and two kids and I didn't realize until now what a lazy fvcker he is.

Now thank jesus we have someone like Jerrek to champion the cause for the downtrodden Rich. We should start a fund. The Rich are on the verge of a veritable calamity. While the single moms of the world feast on leftovers from the diner the only handouts the rich receive are Slim Fast shakes and opportunity. With your help we can change all this. Inner city kids with lean muscle built on basketball and running from gunshots can be very cruel to the hardships of beer bellys developed from sitting at a desk and the mishapen toenails from botched pedicures.

With your contribution of only pennies a day we could change the lives of these poor souls by providing them with a solid meal, washing their Jaguar, and building them tax shelters. While the poor gloat and sneer from the safety of their low rated overcrowded public schools and have even managed to infiltrate public colleges, the Rich have been bounced from one private institution to another often ending up in the horror that is a private academy. More often than not they suffer from the oppression that comes hand in hand with having their rent and insurance being payed for by their parents but with a car purchased for them that does not live up to their expectations.

So to all you lazy one legged mentally damaged vietnam veterans living the high high life on government cheese and VA benefits....I say to you stand tall with Jerrek and help your fellow man. Donate to the Save the Rich Foundation.

Please send contributions via PayPal at www.SaveThe Rich.com

Thank you.
 

Jeslek

Banned
Well, I'm glad you're not letting your education coming in the way of your ignorance. Are you on welfare by any chance?
 

Gato_Solo

Out-freaking-standing OTC member
That was uncalled for, Jerrek. :nono: His attack was based on statistical analysis, yours was more personal. Let's keep it above the waist.

:lurk:
 

flavio

Banned
Thank you Gato.

...and no Jerrek I'm not on welfare, in fact I work two jobs at the moment. I also worked full time while I was in college because I had to pay for it myself. Do you pay for your own school or work full time while in school by chance?
 
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