chcr
Too cute for words
Which came first, the incredible ineptitude and lies or the unfavorable reporting?
The Stab a Soldier in the Back Act 2007
- Thread starter Gonz
- Start date
Which came first, the incredible ineptitude and lies or the unfavorable reporting?mmm.
you wish to compare Germany circa 1945 with modern day Iraq?
I take your point,
but look forward to you dealing with the all the many differences in time, place, will, people, structures, economics, religions, beliefs, happenings, continent, time, world of that time, geography, politics, situation, family ties, changes in technologies, exported wealth, nationalism, the advent of mass media, the over-whelming European desire to reconstruct germany after the mistakes of WW1, the differences in language, situation, cultures, the reality of the whole world at that time, the ...
..the whole shebang basically.
otherwise -
- i take your point.
2minkey
bootlicker
i've learned a lot form this thread...
- that questioning the wisdom of the iraq war or the competence of its architects means that you're a liberal yellowbellied america-hater.
- that the press is actually responsible for how poorly the war is going.
- that the grand scheme behind the war is unknowable. and even if it were, most of us are just too dumb to understand the wider implications for foreign policy, or lack the stomach to make the "tough choices" that several wiser members here have so seriously considered in between handfuls of low grade, salty snack products purchased at wal-mart, during commercial breaks in COPs.
i still feel like i have a lot to learn.
- that questioning the wisdom of the iraq war or the competence of its architects means that you're a liberal yellowbellied america-hater.
- that the press is actually responsible for how poorly the war is going.
- that the grand scheme behind the war is unknowable. and even if it were, most of us are just too dumb to understand the wider implications for foreign policy, or lack the stomach to make the "tough choices" that several wiser members here have so seriously considered in between handfuls of low grade, salty snack products purchased at wal-mart, during commercial breaks in COPs.
i still feel like i have a lot to learn.
spike
New Member
By ignoring the principles the country was founded on it would be you who hates this country.
2minkey
bootlicker
i guess there's room for more on the shortbus.
chcr
Too cute for words
You've left out how not wanting them to die is evidently not in the soldiers' best interest...
My goodness, your highness. Did someone get up on the wrong side of the bed?
Gato_Solo
Out-freaking-standing OTC member
Nah. He just doesn't get it. I've been to the Middle East 3 times, for as long as 6 months. I posted what we were doing that the mainstream media doesn't, and I've seen whats really going on. I said what we needed, and why we need it, and got ridiculed because I didn't list a 200 page report on each incremental step needed to accomplish the mission in order to appease his idea of what we should be doing. Otherwise, he's on the right track.
SouthernN'Proud
Southern Discomfort
The only point was that you can't decimate a nation and walk away from it. It takes a lot longer to rebuild it than it did to tear it down. Unless, of course, one wishes to apply the term reconstruct instead of rebuild. Then you can half-ass it and get away with it. But that's a completely different barrel of primates.
Gato_Solo
Out-freaking-standing OTC member
Actually you can. But you'd better be prepared when that nation rises from its own ashes again. See Germany between WW1 and WW2 for reference.
2minkey
bootlicker
Nah. He just doesn't get it. I've been to the Middle East 3 times, for as long as 6 months. I posted what we were doing that the mainstream media doesn't, and I've seen whats really going on. I said what we needed, and why we need it.
not in any way that transcended the obvious. you said nothing that i or anyone else who's been paying attention was unaware of.
but maybe do a teleconference with cerise. he's apparently in also in possession of secret knowledge and the big idea behind the war, and maybe you two can work something out. then you can conference with the generals there in iraq and set things underway. maybe you can trade 'em some beef jerky for a policy change.
YOU CAN DO IT!!!!!!!!
Gato_Solo
Out-freaking-standing OTC member
not in any way that transcended the obvious. you said nothing that i or anyone else who's been paying attention was unaware of.
but maybe do a teleconference with cerise. he's apparently in also in possession of secret knowledge and the big idea behind the war, and maybe you two can work something out. then you can conference with the generals there in iraq and set things underway. maybe you can trade 'em some beef jerky for a policy change.
YOU CAN DO IT!!!!!!!!
And maybe, with your vast military experience and knowledge, you can clue me in as to what your plan is. I never mentioned anything about secrets, nor did I mention anything about big ideas behind the war. Keep trying, though.. You may find a clue somewhere.
2minkey
bootlicker
you've fairly consistently acted like you were the expert on the war due to your military service there and you've consistently talked down to others that have not "been there" (kinda like you just did) yet you've offered nothing that the rest of us didn't know.
Gato_Solo
Out-freaking-standing OTC member
Never said I was an expert due to my service. I've always maintained that I have experience in the matter of war. I've also always stated that more troops were needed to stabilize the country before we left, and I've consistently talked down to others, yourself included, because you offer opinions as to what should happen with no such experience whatsoever.. You can call that condescension if you like, but its not a secret that I know more about modern warfare than you do. You don't tell an electrician how to wire your new house, or a doctor how to prescribe your medication, do you? Didn't think so. I have also not told you how to do your job. Perhaps if I second guessed your every decision, and gainsaid everything you propose you'll get a clue as to how annoying it gets to hear the constant whines and complaints, but you'll more than likely say that I don't know what I'm talking about....whoops....I say the same about you, don't I?
2minkey
bootlicker
yeah, but none of us ever acted like we was experts on military shit like clearing houses, blowing up them roadside bombs, or supplying troops with the right kinda bullets or whatever. no one ever second guessed that. and that's the kind of stuff YOU should know about, the ground-level shit, not even anything all that strategic.... though that's not how you talk.
aren't you the guy that unloads shit off of planes? i'm sure you know a lot about logistics and that kind of thing, but strategy? come on...
[broken record] you act like mister expert while you don't tell us anything new, just that we "don't understand[/broken record]
second guess a medical doctor? you bet your ass! half those fuckers aren't even paying attention. order tests that have nothing to do with your condition. prescribe the same thing twice without remembering the first time it caused a severe reaction? yup...
second guess the genius who kept talking about "known unknowns" and "unknown unknowns?" sure as shit anyone with a brain should be second guessing that horseshit.
second guess the execution of a war where everyhting that would predictably - without highly specialized knowledge as to the region, it's inhabits, circumsatnces, et cetera - go wrong has gone wrong? hell, yeah.
but you just want everyone else to shut the fuck up and close off their brains, bow before your "expertise" and that of the twits running the war, salute the flag, and go back to watching NASCAR.
fuck that. that's too easy. and, get this, it's a wuss-out. and rather un-american, unless we've truly become the nation of check-mailing chimps that the elitists think we've become.
Gato_Solo
Out-freaking-standing OTC member
Hate to burst your bubble, but the groud-level shit is whats needed...like more troops to secure the borders and more troops to pacify the areas that cause the most trouble.
2minkey said:
Then....since you have this need to gainsay me...you tell me what we should do.
And I do more than 'unload airplanes'. I run my shop of 30 men both at home and deployed. I am at the rank where I don't have to do the physical labor, but I choose to do so. Most of my work involves planning. I'm also qualified for capability forecasting, load planning, aerial delivery, deployment operations, air terminal operations, and information warfare...Gotta keep the data about the cargo and passengers secure.
2minkey said:
Sounds like you went to the same doctor twice. Didn't learn the first time?
2minkey said:
Guess you never heard of the maxum "Battle plans never survive contact with the enemy". Highly specialized knowledge is what led us to this crap-shoot in the first place. Experts claiming that if we do this, the area will be pacified. Other experts claiming the exact opposite. Still others suggesting that we get backing from this group, or that. When you sort through the rhetoric...such as what this whole post you made is, BTW...you come down to the same basic choice. Cut and run, or finish the job.
2minkey said:
Funny. I thought civilians were running this war...which is why its all fucked up. More worried about monetary cost than getting the job done. The JCS' were asking for more money and more troops from day one, but Rumsfeld, a civilian, nixed that idea. I'll also let you in on a secret...warriors win battles, logisticians win wars. I'll re-iterate this whole thing, since you are so intelligent I pale by comparison...when your elitist ranting is done, and you go to sleep at night, just what, exactly, do you know about modern warfare except what a few talking heads on TV tell you?
2minkey said:
So you'd rather second-guess everything I say, and rely on what? Unless you have a better idea, and some experience to back it up, then I would suggest that you let the military run the war. The only thing you said that I think makes any sense is that you don't have the stomach to make the choices.
spike
New Member
He's shipping cargo, of course the world should listen.
no offence - but what do you do?
Does that mean i should / shouldn't, listen?
my dad was in the Navy, was in the invasion of italy campaign - later got himself a cushty job as assitant harbour supplies master at Aden. Went for swims in the early morning, drank so much cheap spanish rum, it put him off rum for life -
does that make his experiences or thoughts or understanding any the less?
Does that mean i should / shouldn't, listen?
my dad was in the Navy, was in the invasion of italy campaign - later got himself a cushty job as assitant harbour supplies master at Aden. Went for swims in the early morning, drank so much cheap spanish rum, it put him off rum for life -
does that make his experiences or thoughts or understanding any the less?