The unintended consequences of the government protecting you.

jimpeel

Well-Known Member
I am considering submitting the text after the story as an editorial opinion piece. Any thoughts from the members of the board would be appreciated.

The unintended consequences of feel-good laws.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,306556,00.html

Hooters Mom Charged With Homicide After Toddler Dies in Hot Car
Wednesday, October 31, 2007
AP/Maricopa County Sheriff's Office

PHOENIX — A woman who found her 17-month-old son dead in her hot, stuffy car after she worked her seven-hour shift as a Hooters waitress has been arrested, police said Wednesday.

Ashly Duchene, 22, was booked into Maricopa County jail on a felony count of negligent homicide, police said.

Duchene usually dropped the boy off at a day-care center on her way to work, but for unknown reasons failed to do so Tuesday, police Sgt. Joel Tranter.

Instead, she left her son, Ryan Gallagher, in the car when she arrived at the north Phoenix restaurant at about 10 a.m., police said. When she returned after her shift at nearly 5 p.m., he was dead.

Efforts to revive the boy by witnesses, officers and firefighters were unsuccessful. Temperatures hit nearly 90 degrees Tuesday, but it would have been more than 100 degrees inside the car, Tranter said.

Duchene told police she walked to her car, unlocked the driver's door, sat in the vehicle and immediately realized she had forgotten she had left Ryan in the back seat.

Officials believe the boy, who was in a car seat, was invisible to people going in and out of the restaurant and a nearby car wash because the car has tinted windows.

A request to interview Duchene was not immediately answered by police Wednesday morning.
The restaurant was closed Wednesday and was holding counseling sessions for employees.

"Our company is deeply saddened by this terrible tragedy," said Melanie Gulmetti, a regional marketing manager. "Our thoughts are with the mother and her family. We are cooperating fully with authorities."

We are now facing what the same people and organizations, who opted and lobbied for these laws regarding the placement and seating provisions for children, are calling an “epidemic”.

There have been numerous cases of children being left in hot cars while the parent(s) are at work or other activities. The answer to why this is happening with increasing frequency is simple -- the law of unintended consequences.

Back in the mid 1960s, seat belts began to appear in cars as an option. The effect on the reduction of accident related deaths was almost immediate. It was not long before the government mandated the installation of seatbelts in all cars.

The effectiveness of shoulder belts was demonstrated shortly thereafter. The government stepped right in and mandated that all cars be equipped with front seat shoulder belts and rear seat lap belts.

As time progressed, it was found that young children sitting in the back seat with lap belts securing them were susceptible to spinal separation injuries when they were involved in frontal impact accidents. The government mandated that all cars must have rear seat shoulder belts as well as all other previously mandated restraint devices.

The problem with the new mandate was that the children using the newly mandated shoulder belts were being "clotheslined" during frontal impacts causing severe injuries and even some deaths. The answer to this was for the government to further mandate child seats for younger, lighter children and booster seats for older heavier children. This at no small cost to parents.

The advent of the airbag ushered in the age of the passive restraint system. Manufacturers offered the new technology as an option in new cars. Before long, the government mandated that all cars must have airbags as well as all other previously mandated restraint devices. It was at about this time that state governments, never able to pass up a revenue enhancement opportunity, started mandating the use of restraint systems for vehicle passengers, including children, with citations and fines for failure to use them.

It was also at about this same time that forward facing infant seats were found to be unsafe. The age of rear facing seats was upon us. Infant seats laid the child on their back facing rearward.

The fallacy of this new technique soon became apparent as child after child was killed or severely injured by airbag deployment during low-impact accidents. In one case, the child was decapitated right in front of it’s mother. The new recommendation, soon to become a government mandate, was to place the child in the back seat away from the airbags.

Federal law prohibited the disabling of the airbags system so that was not an option. To the back seat the children went -- out of sight, and out of mind.

Which brings us to the unintended consequences of today. Parents are simply following the law and placing their children in the back seat. Unfortunately, if the child is asleep and making no sounds to alert parents to their presence, the parent can forget they are there until it is too late. Thus we have this “epidemic” of children dying in hot cars, and the parents going to jail, all because of the unintended consequence of a “benign” government mandate that was designed to protect those same children.

So what have those who opted and lobbied for these laws come up with to counter the unintended consequences of their actions? They suggest that you place a teddy bear on the front seat where you can see it to remind you that your child, who should be sitting where the teddy bear is, is in the back seat, fast asleep.
 

Inkara1

Well-Known Member
Op-ed advice from someone that works in journalism: Usually, opinion pieces actually express an opinion. What are you wanting to be done? Do you want a rollback to the days of no seatbelts at all? Are you in favor of the teddy bear on the seat idea? In short, what's the point?
 

Gato_Solo

Out-freaking-standing OTC member
I am considering submitting the text after the story as an editorial opinion piece. Any thoughts from the members of the board would be appreciated.

The unintended consequences of feel-good laws.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,306556,00.html



We are now facing what the same people and organizations, who opted and lobbied for these laws regarding the placement and seating provisions for children, are calling an “epidemic”.

There have been numerous cases of children being left in hot cars while the parent(s) are at work or other activities. The answer to why this is happening with increasing frequency is simple -- the law of unintended consequences.

*snip*

So what have those who opted and lobbied for these laws come up with to counter the unintended consequences of their actions? They suggest that you place a teddy bear on the front seat where you can see it to remind you that your child, who should be sitting where the teddy bear is, is in the back seat, fast asleep.

Ummm...

1. The number of children left in hot cars is extremely low.
2. Most children left in hot cars are there because the parents are inattentive, not because of seatbelts et al.
3. I can bet you anything from dollars to donuts that the majority of these children are left there purposely...
 

SouthernN'Proud

Southern Discomfort
Ummm...

1. The number of children left in hot cars is extremely low.
2. Most children left in hot cars are there because the parents are inattentive, not because of seatbelts et al.
3. I can bet you anything from dollars to donuts that the majority of these children are left there purposely...

What he said.

The blame does not lie on the seatbelt; if it did, you make a grand argument for gun control. Talk about unintended consequences.

Some people, simply out, are too stupid to breed. She's one of them.
 

TexasRaceLady

Active Member
Op-ed advice from someone that works in journalism: Usually, opinion pieces actually express an opinion. What are you wanting to be done? Do you want a rollback to the days of no seatbelts at all? Are you in favor of the teddy bear on the seat idea? In short, what's the point?

I have to agree with Inkara. You've expressed no opinion about the law. What do you want to happen with said law?
 

Professur

Well-Known Member
I see a lot of details, but like the others ... I don't see a destination.



But, I'll make the leap of assumption that you're blaming 'something' in that mess for the child's death ... outside of stupidity on the mother's part. Well, having seen what happens to kids unsecured in a car, compared to kids secured in one .... I'll keep my kids in their child seats and boosters ... thanks.



On a side note ....our new Malibu doesn't have childproof locks on the back doors. Did anyone hear anything about them being cancelled from factory issue? I know it's a 'dangerous' thing with not being able to open the rear doors from the inside in an emergency, but I thought that they'd accepted that the risk was still less than having a child pull the latch with the car doing 60.
 

freako104

Well-Known Member
The blame does not lie on the seatbelt; if it did, you make a grand argument for gun control. Talk about unintended consequences.




I can give a good argument for gun control: Blame the person that pulled the trigger, the gun itself only did what the person behind it did. It is a tool for hunting or for protection.



Oh wait. That is an argument saying people are responsible for their own actions. Not gun control.



In this case the parent is to blame. Not the infant and not the seatbelt. The parent left the kid in the car, and as such, she is to blame.
 

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
Maricopa County jail

Unless she's new to the Valley of the Sun, this was homicide. There are continual & continuing public safety announcements made in Phoenix about thi svery thing.

It gets hot in Ft Wayne in July.

It gets hot in Phoenix in April & doesn't quit until October.


As far as your op-ed...you're gonna get creamed. I agree with it but we live in a world where you may be hunted down & boiled in oil for having that opinion.
 

jimpeel

Well-Known Member
Op-ed advice from someone that works in journalism: Usually, opinion pieces actually express an opinion. What are you wanting to be done? Do you want a rollback to the days of no seatbelts at all? Are you in favor of the teddy bear on the seat idea? In short, what's the point?

I feel that the option of placement of the child should be left to the parent and not to some government hack and feel-good legislation. I am not in favor of the elimination of restraint systems. What I am in favor of is the parent being allowed to control the airbag syatem so they can once again place their child in the front seat. Right now, by federal law, they could go to jail for disconnecting the system. Mechanics and dealerships are likewise prohibited from disconnecting them.

Look at the progression of the law and how it simply got worse and worse while everyone who opted for it declared it a success.

I did cover my opinion but perhaps a bit too subtley when I wrote:

They suggest that you place a teddy bear on the front seat where you can see it to remind you that your child, who should be sitting where the teddy bear is, is in the back seat, fast asleep.
 

jimpeel

Well-Known Member
1. The number of children left in hot cars is extremely low.

But those who deign to control every aspect of our lives are declaring it an "epidemic". That can only mean that they have further plans for the abrogation of parental responsibility. This is, by the way, the third child to be left in a car in the past three weeks. One survived and was never in danger. The mother may lose the child anyway. That's what CPS does and their budget is tied to the number of children they seize.

2. Most children left in hot cars are there because the parents are inattentive, not because of seatbelts et al.

Inattentivness may be a factor; but forcing parents to do something which places the child out of sight and out of mind is the driving force. Modern day livging is hectic to the breaking point for most Americans. We don't enjoy the Chinese model. We have to be to work on time or we don't keep our job. Deadlines pervade our every waking moment -- pick up the kids; get them to soccer; cook dinner; wash the clothes; contact the client; get the contract; et al.

3. I can bet you anything from dollars to donuts that the majority of these children are left there purposely...

You do realize that you have just declared that at least 51% of these cases are infanticide, don't you?
 

jimpeel

Well-Known Member
What he said.

The blame does not lie on the seatbelt; if it did, you make a grand argument for gun control. Talk about unintended consequences.

Some people, simply out, are too stupid to breed. She's one of them.

I'm not blaming the seatbelt. The seatbelt is merely the catalyst by which we have gotten to this point.

It all started so simply. First there were lap belts and children were injured by them, then shoulder belts and children were injured and killed by them, then airbags and children were injured and killed by them. Every step has been to try, unsuccessfully, to undo the wrong caused by the prior step. There has to eventually be a point where the admission comes that the entire thing has been a failure.

The problem is, that politicians will not admit failure. They merely try to unscrew their prior screwup with what eventually becomes still one more screwup.

Additionally, the rate of deaths by auto accident has not decreased despite all of the safety measures the politicians have mandated.

Here is why: Risk Homeostasis and the Futility of Protecting People from Themselves
 

jimpeel

Well-Known Member
I see a lot of details, but like the others ... I don't see a destination.

But, I'll make the leap of assumption that you're blaming 'something' in that mess for the child's death ... outside of stupidity on the mother's part. Well, having seen what happens to kids unsecured in a car, compared to kids secured in one .... I'll keep my kids in their child seats and boosters ... thanks.

I never said I wanted the elimination of restraint systems from vehicles.

I feel that the installation of airbags should go back to being an option. The owners of vehicles with airbags should have the option of disabling them.

I also feel that the placement of the child within the passenger compartment should be at the discretion of the parent. How many times have we all seen a driver reaching over the back of the driver's seat trying to comfort the child in the back seat, or recover a dropped bottle or toy, while the car swerves back and forth in the lane? Now THAT'S distraction!

If airbags could be disabled, the kid could very safely ride in the front seat, within sight and reach, without the danger of having their brains turned to Jello by the airbag. What is so hard about that? I'll tell you what is so hard about it -- politicians and their stubborness.
 

Inkara1

Well-Known Member
I feel that the option of placement of the child should be left to the parent and not to some government hack and feel-good legislation.

Look at the progression of the law ans how it simply got worse and worse while everyone who opted for it declared it a success.

I did cover my opinion but perhaps a bit too subtley when I wrote:

1. It's spelled subtly.

2. In your "subtle point," you said the kid should be in the front seat, but just now, you said it should be up to the parent's judgment. See an ever-so-slight contradiction in stances there?

3. Your "subtle point" still doesn't really say much. Do you want the kids in the back seat with rear-facing seats? In the back seat with front-facing seats? Do you want kids in the front seat with no passenger air bag? Do you want air bags which can be disabled (as pickup trucks are equipped with)? If you want no air bag, or a defeatable one, what do you do about the people driving the tens of millions of cars on the road today with dual frontal air bags? It setill seems like all you're doing is complaining instead of offering a solution or suggesting a course of action.
 

jimpeel

Well-Known Member
I can give a good argument for gun control: Blame the person that pulled the trigger, the gun itself only did what the person behind it did. It is a tool for hunting or for protection.



Oh wait. That is an argument saying people are responsible for their own actions. Not gun control.



In this case the parent is to blame. Not the infant and not the seatbelt. The parent left the kid in the car, and as such, she is to blame.

I didn't say the parent was blameless. What I said was that the catalyst by which this so-called "epidemic" has come to visit us is the mandatory placement of the child out of sight and out of mind. The part about the seatbelts was merely the starting point by which this has happened and the steps which followed that got us to where we are now. This will continue until one of the politicians who legislated this leaves one of their kids in a hot car. then it will change.

Has anyone got any ideas on where the next step of this type of legislation will go? It has to go somewhere; but I do not know where that may be. I am sure that someone, somewhere, is thinking up something right now in their fertile little mind.
 

jimpeel

Well-Known Member
Make it no seatbelt laws & you bet.

How in the hell did we survive cars with no seatbelts, shoulder belts, airbags, non-locking steering wheels and ignitions, crush zones, impact bumpers, steel dashboards, protruding dash knobs, door handles, and window handles, suicide doors without kiddie locks, lighters that worked with the ignition off, and interlock systems.
 
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