"Will Vote For FOOD"-(wouldn't you?)

tank girl

New Member
In all the media hoopla over Sunday's "election" in Iraq, a few details got missed.

The Story of the Ghost

By William Rivers Pitt
t r u t h o u t | Perspective

3.013105-W_sm.jpg

"United States officials were surprised and heartened today at the size of turnout in South Vietnam's presidential election despite a Vietcong terrorist campaign to disrupt the voting. According to reports from Saigon, 83 percent of the 5.85 million registered voters cast their ballots yesterday. Many of them risked reprisals threatened by the Vietcong. A successful election has long been seen as the keystone in President Johnson's policy of encouraging the growth of constitutional processes in South Vietnam."
- Peter Grose, in a page 2 New York Times article titled, 'U.S. Encouraged by Vietnam Vote,' September 4, 1967.

"Dahr Jamail, writing for Inter Press Service, reported that "Many Iraqis had expressed fears before the election that their monthly food rations would be cut if they did not vote. They said they had to sign voter registration forms in order to pick up their food supplies. Just days before the election, 52 year-old Amin Hajar, who owns an auto garage in central Baghdad, had said, 'I'll vote because I can't afford to have my food ration cut. If that happened, me and my family would starve to death.'"

'Will Vote For Food' is not a spectacular billboard for the export of democracy
. "
[email protected]
 

Professur

Well-Known Member
I fail to see what the vietcong have to do with the Iraqi elections. Nice try, tho. You almost looked like you knew what you were doing there.
 

MrBishop

Well-Known Member
Prof - huge turnouts because the people were forced to vote as opposed to a huge turnout because people wanted to vote.

The prior story is an example of how history repeats itself. How a succesful election shows how well a war-president in a similar circumstance would be seen in his actions.

S'wagging the dog. Again. :D
 

tank girl

New Member
MrBishop said:
Prof - huge turnouts because the people were forced to vote as opposed to a huge turnout because people wanted to vote.

The prior story is an example of how history repeats itself.

Too right.

It's not a matter of connecting historical fact at all - and thats what you people fail to acknowledge - its a matter of making a simple comparison with the past and the present - and noting yet again another way in which we could have learned from the past - but haven't.

That snippet is something taken out of the NYT in 1967. Similar snippets could be taken out of thousands of papers all over the world following the Iraq election. Go figure...
 

samcurry

Screwing with the code...
Staff member
tank girl said:
Too right.

It's not a matter of connecting historical fact at all - and thats what you people fail to acknowledge - its a matter of making a simple comparison with the past and the present - and noting yet again another way in which we could have learned from the past - but haven't.

That snippet is something taken out of the NYT in 1967. Similar snippets could be taken out of thousands of papers all over the world following the Iraq election. Go figure...
Really? then post a couple for us. I think your just looking for the smoking gun here. You have made a blantant accuasation here that i think you cant suport.

"Similar snippets could be taken out of thousands of papers all over the world following the Iraq election. Go figure..."

put up or.....
 

HomeLAN

New Member
Nah, it all comes down to continuing to insist that there are deep parallels between Iraq and Vietnam. Even though it isn't true, if you say it often enough, people will believe it. Same deal with Bush=Hitler. Patently false, uses flawed logic to draw an incorrect conclusion, but all ya gotta do is keep repeating it. Just keep it right up front in every litlle fucking thing you say....
 

tank girl

New Member
: Talking Points: Iraq Election
Posted by Senior Editor on 2005/2/1 15:02:15

“Today the people of Iraq have spoken to the world, and the world is hearing the voice of freedom from the center of the Middle East.”

President George W. Bush
http://www.theconservativevoice.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=2461
Arab newspapers of all political stripes agreed that election day in Iraq was as historic as the day Baghdad fell to American forces in April of 2003.

http://news.pacificnews.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=8813b7b79232f3b07489899309b9025a
After months of grim news and futile efforts to stem the deadly insurgency in Iraq, President Bush declared Sunday's Iraqi national election a "resounding success" and said "the world is hearing the voice of freedom from the center of the Middle East."
http://www.bergen.com/page.php?qstr...FRXl5NjY0NzE2MCZ5cmlyeTdmNzE3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTI=

Iraq election inspires patriotism

How can you not be inspired by what happened in Iraq?

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/mld/myrtlebeachonline/news/local/10803686.htm



) –
Iraq Election Boosts Bush Approval

George W. Bush regained public support in the United States in the aftermath of the National Assembly election in Iraq, according to a poll by Rasmussen Reports. 52 per cent of respondents in the U.S. approve of the president’s performance, a six per cent increase in four days.

http://www.noticias.info/asp/aspComunicados.asp?nid=47072&src=0



here you go, Sam. How can you not deny the spin the media all over the globe jumped on in order to take the opportunity to promote the agenda of the Bush administration as well as participate in the continualglorifying the present situation in Iraq (ie: which in reality is nothing more than chaos, annihilation, mayhem : any of the above) to the rest of the world?
 

tank girl

New Member
:hmm:

don't forget these pathetic excuses for "journalism"...

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=42695
Iraq and the fire of freedom
Posted: February 3, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern

© 2005 Laurence A. Elder

The following euphoria was brought to you by President George W. Bush.


Last but not least.... the crowning princess...[clown that is]
THE WORLD IS changing. After the -- all bow -- international community warned that Middle Easterners could not govern themselves, millions of Iraqis braved the threat of violence to go out to the polls Sunday to participate in their country's first free election in almost 50 years.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2005/02/01/EDGQLB2GIT1.DTL

IRAQ THE VOTE

Thu Feb 3, 6:41 PM ET

Add to My Yahoo! Op/Ed - Ann Coulter

By Ann Coulter

In one of the grandest events in the history of the world, millions of Iraqis risked death on Sunday to vote in a free, democratic election. There were more than 100 attacks on polling stations by the "insurgents" (or "Islamic fascists," as authentic Americans call them). But the Iraqis voted -- Shia, Sunnis, women and an estimated 2,000 dead felons in Washington state.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...742&e=10&u=/ucac/20050203/cm_ucac/iraqthevote
 

ClaireBear

Banned
samcurry said:
Really? then post a couple for us. I think your just looking for the smoking gun here. You have made a blantant accuasation here that i think you cant suport.

"Similar snippets could be taken out of thousands of papers all over the world following the Iraq election. Go figure..."

put up or.....

This is one of the many examples of why I don't get involved in RW debates...

Tut..tut..tut..
 

samcurry

Screwing with the code...
Staff member
knock knock.. mcfly anyone there?

TG you made a direct statement that there were reports similiar to this. "Dahr Jamail, writing for Inter Press Service, reported that "Many Iraqis had expressed fears before the election that their monthly food rations would be cut if they did not vote. They said they had to sign voter registration forms in order to pick up their food supplies. Just days before the election, 52 year-old Amin Hajar, who owns an auto garage in central Baghdad, had said, 'I'll vote because I can't afford to have my food ration cut. If that happened, me and my family would starve to death.'"

this is what i asked for quotes from. how twisted do you wanna make this?
 

SouthernN'Proud

Southern Discomfort
Dozens of headlines from all over the world, reporting an optimistic account of elections being held in a country for the first time in generations (or should I say legitimate elections). And somehow, this is bad news. A harbinger of impending doom.

Only TG.
 

HomeLAN

New Member
That's the point. It isn't only TG. It's a depressingly high number of idiots without the capacity for coherent thought. This "repeat it ad nauseum" strategy converts more weak minds every day....
 

SouthernN'Proud

Southern Discomfort
HomeLAN said:
That's the point. It isn't only TG. It's a depressingly high number of idiots without the capacity for coherent thought. This "repeat it ad nauseum" strategy converts more weak minds every day....

True enough. For reference, see Rather, Dan: The Clinton era.
 

Inkara1

Well-Known Member
TG, I find it funny that you quote an article from sfgate.com as being one of the "bad" ones. That site is the online version of the San Francisco Chronicle. San Francisco is one of the most liberal cities in the US, and the paper's slant reflects its primary readership.
 
http://www.jpost.com/

Under-hyping the Iraqi elections
Feb. 3, 2005

And so the "looming Iraqi election fiasco" joins "the brutal Afghan winter" and "the brutal Iraqi summer" and "the seething Arab street" and all the other junk in the overflowing trash can of post-9/11 Western media fictions.

The sight of millions of brave voters emerging from polling stations holding high their purple dye-stained fingers was so inspiring that, from America's Democratic Party to European protest rallies, opponents of the war waited, oh, all of three minutes before flipping the Iraqis their own fingers, undyed.

"No one in the United States should try to over-hype this election," warned John Kerry sternly, before embarking on the world champion limbo dance of Iraqi election under-hyping.

He has a point. One vote does not a functioning democracy make. To be a truly advanced sophisticated democracy you need an opposition party that knows how to react to good news by sounding whiney and grudging and moving the goalposts.

"The real test is not the election," declared Senator Kerry, airily swatting aside eight million voters. "The real test is..." I dozed off at that point, so I'm unable to tell you what moved goalposts the senator inserted. But no doubt they involved, as they always do, the Bush administration needing to "reach out" "more effectively" to "involve" "the international community."

"International community," by the way, doesn't mean Tony Blair, John Howard, the Poles, Japan, India, Fiji, etc., but Jacques Chirac. In an advanced sophisticated democracy, that's how we define "the international community": No matter how many foreigners are in your coalition, it's unilateral unless Jacques's on board.

In Comonwealth countries, of course, they have the concept of "Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition," so called because the Loyal Opposition carries on like an hysterical old queen. Thus Kim Beazley, the new leader of Australia's Labor Party, who on the very eve of the Iraqi election triumph – when elementary prudence might have suggested waiting 24 hours – couldn't resist launching into another refrain of "When It's Quagmire Time On The Tigris."

The new Labor leader had barely taken possession of the keys to the executive washroom before he was "warning" the US that it risked being bogged down in – all together now – "a long-running civil war in Iraq."

How lame do you have to be to be the last guy on the planet to do the old "Iraq on the brink of civil war" routine? Just as "the brutal Afghan winter" that was supposed to mire shivering American forces in the graveyard of empire is now a third of a decade behind schedule, so Iraq has now been "teetering on the brink of civil war" for coming up for two years.

Brink-wise, that's quite a leisurely teeter. There's no danger of a "long-running civil war in Iraq." Instead, we've had a long-running hysteria about impending civil war in Iraq. Indeed, as long runs go, predictions of Iraqi civil war is the Cats of doomsday scenarios – except that, unlike Cats, it's all previews and no opening night.

Tom Clark of Canada's CTV network was warning that "Iraq could be teetering on the brink of civil war" in August 2003. Graydon Carter, editor of the perfumed glossy Vanity Fair, was warning that Iraq was "now on the brink of civil war" a month earlier. To their credit, both men teetered on the brink of making a laughably inaccurate prediction and then plunged right in. What's the point of Beazley teetering on the brink for a full two years before hurling himself into the abyss of yesterday's clich s?

To hold a civil war you need two sides. Iraq fails to meet that minimum requirement. Abu Musab Zarqawi – not an Iraqi, incidentally – has a few foreign jihadi, some enthusiastic head-hackers and a dwindling supply of suicide bombers, a job in which, by definition, it's hard to get people with experience.

On election day, his guys bullied a kid with Down Syndrome into taking the gig. You can't have a Sunni-Shi'ite war because Zarqawi doesn't represent the Sunni. Meanwhile, in the face of his provocations, the Shi'ites have been a model of restraint and discipline and political surefootedness. The Australian Labor Party, the US Democrats and the British Tories might all learn a thing or two from them.

Granted, A footling suicide-cult with no mass support will still blow up cars and burn buildings, and they're savvy enough to do so in parts of the country conveniently located so that Zarqawi's shills in the Western press corps don't have to stray far from their hotels to film it. Or as the Internet satirist Scott Ott deftly summarized the coverage: "Iraqi Voting Disrupts News Reports Of Bombings."

That's another sign that you're a mature, sophisticated democracy – when you've got a media so bogged down in the Vietnam-like quagmire of its ancient Vietnam quagmire analogies it's unable to drag itself free whatever happens.

The election was "an act of folly in the eyes of so many Iraqis," pronounced a confident Robert Fisk, the veteran Fleet Street Middle East correspondent and beloved comic doom-monger. Care to pin down that "so many" a bit more precisely, Robert?

The BBC's Fadel al Badrani reported: "A number of polling stations have opened in Fallujah in the north, north-east, and inside the public park. The turnout to all these stations is very low."

What does "very low" mean in the context of what we've been told for months is an "insurgent stronghold?"

In his own pre-election message, Zarqawi denounced the "evil" of democracy and warned any Iraqis who went along with it that they'd be regarded as having gone over to the other side. Yet at some Sunni Triangle precincts there were reports of 40% voter turnout – courageous men and women willing to defy the thugs and murders in their own so-called stronghold.

Three years ago, Jonathan Kay of Canada's National Post wrote that if Zimbabwe's Robert Mugabe turned up at an Arab League meeting he'd be the most democratically legitimate leader in the room. That's no longer true. What happened on Sunday was a victory for the Iraqi people and a vindication for a relatively small group of Western politicians – most notably the much maligned Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, whose faith in those Iraqi people turned out to be so much shrewder than the sneers of his detractors.

Senator Kerry is wrong. It's time for him and Ted Kennedy and the rest of the gang to stop under-hyping. If freedom isn't on the march, it's moving forward dramatically in a region notoriously inimical to it.

Last weekend's vote was a rebuke to the parochial condescension of the West's elites. "These elections are a joke," Juan Cole, a "professor of modern Middle East history" at the University of Michigan, told Reuters.

Sorry, professor, the joke's on you. And modern Middle East history is being made by the fledgling democracy of the new Iraq.
 

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
Three years ago, Jonathan Kay of Canada's National Post wrote that if Zimbabwe's Robert Mugabe turned up at an Arab League meeting he'd be the most democratically legitimate leader in the room.

:rofl2:
 

tank girl

New Member
Inkara1 said:
TG, I find it funny that you quote an article from sfgate.com as being one of the "bad" ones. That site is the online version of the San Francisco Chronicle. San Francisco is one of the most liberal cities in the US, and the paper's slant reflects its primary readership.

Before you coin your assumptions Inky - I am neither a Liberal nor a Conservative and frankly see every commercial media operation as subject to bias one way or the other - regardless of the fact that it is "liberal" orientated or "conservative"...its more about whoever the publication is catering to - and for I agree.

I didn't point out that it was "bad" either - just that it has a relationship with the article about the Vietnam election that paints it in a glorifying manner. :shrug:

Both Conservative and Liberal publications can be BAD as much as they can be GOOD.


The measure of that is how much they tend towards journalistic standards or their own house rules.

These days there is no such thing as 100% objective and credible journalism where the coorporate body rules and the imperative is economic rather than fairness and equality.

The problem with the U.S media and political system is that it is far, far too polarized for its own good. I think that is an outrage for a democratic society because it is unfair.

If the Democrats would be in power the articles would be JUST THE SAME!!!!

What I am saying is that the media hype is something that we should be aware about especially if you genuinely care about what is happening in Iraq and not what the media wants to tell y1ou :Shrug:
 
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