Without Bush to kick around

[Gonz]

Maybe tell them how to create a living will.

"Now, now, Mrs Smith. I know you miss your (recently departed) husband & your gout hurts terribly. While I have you here, I'd like to go over some paperwork. I notice you don't have a living will. You wouldn't want to suffer at the hands of an uncaring staff in some broken down medical facility, in the unfortuante case of, God forbid, a terrible & tragic, perhaps disfiguring, accident, would you? Your children shouldn't be responsible for such a horrific decision at an stage of suffering, do you think? I know I'd not want it. Fill in you name here, oh, never mind, we can do that, just sign here & initial here & here, then we can take care of you. We'll make sure you don't suffer."

 

[spike]

Making up shit again just makes you look silly.

Living wills are one part of advance directives and describe your treatment preferences in end-of-life situations. Unexpected end-of-life situations can happen at any age, so all adults need advance directives.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/living-wills/HA00014

Does that scare you? Then don't make one. It's optional.

 

[Gonz]

I have one. The bestestest part is, not one government employee or volunteer was needed.

 

[spike]

Oh good, so there is nothing scary about people having the option to learn about them.

 

[Cerise]

Sounds like the "public option" is history.

It's now referred to as the "Health care co-ops."

........the administration would consider cooperatives as a substitute for a public health plan if Obama's conditions for enhanced choice and competition were met.

 

[Cerise]

You know, your GF would probably have to undergo the same kind of counseling. In light of the high cost of the monthly script bill that you so generously pay, she must have some kind of chronic condition, right? I can't remember if you've ever mentioned what she has. You really think 0bama-Co-op-care would cover her?

 

[spike]

You know, your GF would probably have to undergo the same kind of counseling.

Nobody would have to undergo counseling. It was put in the bill as an optional service.

 

[Gonz]

Nobody would have to undergo counseling. It was put in the bill as an optional service.

‘Advance Care Planning Consultation


‘‘(hhh)(1) Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the term ‘advance care planning consultation’ means a consultation between the individual and a practitioner described in paragraph (2) regarding advance care planning, if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual involved has not had such a consultation within the last 5 years. Such consultation shall include the following:

‘‘(E) An explanation by the practitioner of the continuum of end-of-life services and supports available, including palliative care and hospice, and benefits for such services and supports that are available under this title.

I thik th etwo bold sections are rather indicitive of the "not optional" requirement & the red/blue pill option.

 

[Gonz]

Can you say Death Panel?

ESTABLISHMENT OF OUTCOME-BASED MEASURES.—By not later than for 2013 the Secretary shall implement reporting requirements for quality under this section measures selected under clause (iii) that reflect the outcomes of care experienced by individuals enrolled in Medicare Advantage plans (in addition to measures described in clause (i)). Such measures may include—

‘‘(IV) measures of health functioning (such as limitations on activities of daily living) and survival for patients with chronic diseases;

‘‘(VI) other measure of outcomes and patient quality of life as determined by the Secretary. Such measures shall be risk-adjusted as the Secretary deems appropriate. In determining the quality measures to be used under this clause, the Secretary shall take into consideration the recommendations of the Medicare Payment Advisory Commission in its report to Congress...

 

[spike]

Gonz, there's nothing in what you quoted indicating it's not optional or scary. OMG people will talk to you about your options if you'd like them to!!!

Geez.

 

[chcr]

You know, I can't but think that it would surprise some of these mouth breathers to know that health care professionals have been required to discuss end of life issues with patients by federal law since the Reagan administration. It's neither new nor threatening. I guess they think it sounds so if you scream it in a panicky manner.

 

[catocom]

hr 3200 is pretty much dead

as I said
it all depends on if it's a mandate, or and option without strings,
on the death panels.

I've had to deal with those problems, and I don't think people should wait
too long, but to mandate it ain't right.

 

[Gonz]

Perhaps the eggheads might read that does not MEDICAL PROFFESIONALS, it says the SECRETARY, as in beauracrat. Although it is always good to see you particiapte in these conversations. You add so much swill & bile.

spike, learn to read lawyerese. A judge sure will. Shall does not mean if you feel like it.

 

[Cerise]

You know, I can't but think that it would surprise some of these mouth breathers to know that health care professionals have been required to discuss end of life issues with patients by federal law since the Reagan administration. It's neither new nor threatening. I guess they think it sounds so if you scream it in a panicky manner.

Do you really think that a discussion of withholding/withdrawing/ refusing life-sustaining medical treatment in the final stages of a terminal illness is the same as Section 1233 of HR 3200?



Special advisor for 0bama's OMB for health policy sez:

Conversely, services provided to individuals who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens are not basic and should not be guaranteed. An obvious example is not guaranteeing health services to patients with dementia. A less obvious example Is is guaranteeing neuropsychological services to ensure children with learning disabilities can read and learn to reason.

 

[spike]

spike, learn to read lawyerese. A judge sure will. Shall does not mean if you feel like it.

Yeah, if it said something like "all people shall be required to undergo end of life counseling" you might have a point. You're going to have to learn how to read what the "shall" applies to.

It's optional.

"According to Dau, what's been lost in the small-scale hysteria is that these services are 100% optional: Medicare subscribers can ask for help with living wills if they like, but no end-of-life arrangement will ever be mandated or imposed upon them by doctors or government. "The only new thing about the bill is that Medicare will pay for end-of-life counseling every five years," Dau says. "If you decide to take one of these consultations, you don't have to sign any document before you leave—no advance directives, no living will. These are, as they should be, completely optional."

So much for the alarmism.

 

[Gonz]

Shall = Will

May = choice

 

[spike]

Damn Gonz, just read the whole sentence the "shall" is in will you? What are they saying shall happen?

It doesn't day "everyone shall undergo end of life counseling". The counseling isn't even mentioned in your quote. And what is mentioned has a "Such measures may include—"

The end of life counseling is optional. You're wrong. I'm sorry Palin lied to you and you fell for it.

 

[Gonz]

I have no idea what Palin said. She's not in office & not running for office so I don't much care.

I've read enough law & dealt with enough lawyers to know that the letter of the law...you better read it carefully.

 

[Cerise]

It is not optional. Read the bill:

TITLE II SUBTITLE C SEC. 1233. ADVANCE CARE PLANNING CONSULTATION.

Section 1233 authorizes advanced care planning consultations for senior citizens on Medicare every five years, and more often “if there is a significant change in the health condition of the individual ... or upon admission to a skilled nursing facility, a long-term care facility... or a hospice program." [3] During those consultations, practitioners must explain “the continuum of end-of-life services and supports available, including palliative care and hospice,” and the government benefits available to pay for such services. [4]


Now put this in context. These consultations are authorized whenever a Medicare recipient’s health changes significantly or when they enter a nursing home, and they are part of a bill whose stated purpose is “to reduce the growth in health care spending.”

 

[spike]

authorizes advanced care planning consultations for senior citizens on Medicare every five years, and more often “if there is a significant change in the health condition of the individual

Geezus Cerise. Do your research a little better.

They are available (authorized) every five years or more often if there's a change in health condition. Still optional.

You're still wrong.