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Gonz

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
Oh yes, this is the way to go. Make the family weaker by making the parents less committed to one another.

Sorry, but no matter how you cut it, love isn't enough.

Instead of encouraging a society-wide return to marriage, Scandinavian gay marriage has driven home the message that marriage itself is outdated, and that virtually any family form, including out-of-wedlock parenthood, is acceptable.

...unpublished paper doesn't begin to get at the truth about the decline of marriage in Scandinavia during the nineties. Scandinavian marriage is now so weak that statistics on marriage and divorce no longer mean what they used to.

And now that married parenthood has become a minority phenomenon, it has lost the critical mass required to have socially normative force. As Danish sociologists Wehner, Kambskard, and Abrahamson describe it, in the wake of the changes of the nineties, "Marriage is no longer a precondition for settling a family--neither legally nor normatively. . . . What defines and makes the foundation of the Danish family can be said to have moved from marriage to parenthood."

The Swedes have simply drawn the final conclusion: If we've come so far without marriage, why marry at all? Our love is what matters, not a piece of paper. Why should children change that?


The massive Swedish welfare state has largely displaced the family as provider.
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Weekly Standard
 
Do they mean it is ok if the parents arent married to have kids? if they love and suport the kids why doesnt that count as a family?
 
freako104 said:
Do they mean it is ok if the parents arent married to have kids? if they love and suport the kids why doesnt that count as a family?
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Take a look at what Gonz put in bold print at the bottom. Basically, when you remove marriage from the equation, you remove some of what I like to call personal responsibility. Debate this all you like, but here in the USA, we have a growing problem with just such arrangements (parents never married) in our inner cities, and the welfare rolls keep growing.
 
Try the Quebec $5/day daycare. You're taxed so heavily to support it, you have to become a 2 ncome family. It's a self perpetuating curse. And it lands kids at their most vunerable and most open to learning right in the gov't's hands.
 
stolen from some religious zealot, a Christian ;)

"We have ridiculed the absolute truth of your word and called it pluralism.

"We have worshiped other gods and called it multiculturalism.

"We have endorsed perversion and called it alternative lifestyle.

"We have exploited the poor and called it the lottery.

"We have neglected the needy and called it self-preservation.

"We have rewarded laziness and called it welfare.

"We have killed our unborn and called it choice.

"We have shot abortionists and called it justifiable.

"We have neglected to discipline our children and called it building self-esteem.

"We have abused power and called it political savvy.

"We have coveted our neighbor's possessions and called it ambition.

"We have polluted the air with profanity and pornography and called it freedom of expression.

"And we have ridiculed the time-honored values of our forefathers and called it enlightenment.
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Not yet. I will ask which side of the culture war we all wish to join.

and post this
15391.gif
 
Gonz said:
stolen from some religious zealot, a Christian ;)
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is that from Jerry Falwell? :rolleyes:


Gato, welfare goes to those who cant afford their own or arent willing to. I do not see how removing marriage removes personal responsibility.
 
Gonz said:
Not yet. I will ask which side of the culture war we all wish to join.

and post this
15391.gif
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since when is there a culture war? isnt that some bullshit for those who wish to make this a theocracy?
 
freako104 said:
is that from Jerry Falwell? :rolleyes:


Gato, welfare goes to those who cant afford their own or arent willing to. I do not see how removing marriage removes personal responsibility.
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I'll explain it like this. Marriage is actually the ultimate in personal responsibility. You are taking yourself out of the 'me', catagory, and putting yourself in the 'we' catagory. You are taking on a huge responsibility by stating that, no matter what happens, you'll stand by someone else, any children that come out of this relationship, and through any problems that may arise. Parenthood is not marriage. You have not taken a vow, or oath, proclaiming that you are responsible for anything. You still may come, and go, as you please. If you tire of your mate, you can go off with someone else. There is no root responsibility to keep you there. It's just convenience. Since welfare began in the US, there has been a sharp increase in unwed births, a sharp increase in drug use, and a sharp increase in violent crime. I personally think it's because people think that they don't have to work anymore. I know that there are times when some people lose employment. I know there are times when 'shit happens', but I also know that throwing money at a problem doesn't stop the problem. If I went to the government and said "I can't find a job", and they said, "Here. Take a check until you do find a job", then why should I work? It's not a 'safety net', freako. It's a trap. As long as a person is receiving welfare, that is one person who will toe the government line and not 'make waves'. That's someone who won't ever become anything but a government slave. Some folks can say the same thing about me...I'm in the military...but there's one difference. I'm working. I've seen beyond my welfare provided home, eating my welfare provided meal. If you give people the option to work for a living, or get paid for doing nothing, how many would opt for the second choice? Once there, their children are raised with it. Then their grandchildren, then their great-grandchildren. Once it travels that far, there is no more self-respect, no more self-esteem, and no more self-reliance. You've become a pawn of the government...a slave, if you will, and the government has total control over you. Think about it.
 
cant the same be said about any relationship where you are committed? this could be for friendship,romance and parenting as well as platonic relationships
 
Gato_Solo said:
Since welfare began in the US, there has been a sharp increase in unwed births, a sharp increase in drug use, and a sharp increase in violent crime.
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So welfare created the market for sex, drugs and crime? I'm pretty sure people will do drugs, have sex and hurt others no matter if they are on welfare or not.


Gato_Solo said:
I personally think it's because people think that they don't have to work anymore. I know that there are times when some people lose employment. I know there are times when 'shit happens', but I also know that throwing money at a problem doesn't stop the problem. If I went to the government and said "I can't find a job", and they said, "Here. Take a check until you do find a job", then why should I work? It's not a 'safety net', freako. It's a trap. As long as a person is receiving welfare, that is one person who will toe the government line and not 'make waves'. That's someone who won't ever become anything but a government slave. Some folks can say the same thing about me...I'm in the military...but there's one difference. I'm working. I've seen beyond my welfare provided home, eating my welfare provided meal. If you give people the option to work for a living, or get paid for doing nothing, how many would opt for the second choice? Once there, their children are raised with it. Then their grandchildren, then their great-grandchildren. Once it travels that far, there is no more self-respect, no more self-esteem, and no more self-reliance. You've become a pawn of the government...a slave, if you will, and the government has total control over you. Think about it.
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Being on welfare is not fun. You do not "get" enough money to raise a family of three, no matter what you have heard.

rrfield
 
Funny, up here, not only do you get enough money to raise and house a family, they'll pay your car, and cable TV and Internet are both listed as necessities. You don't just get money, here. There's subsidised housing. Half the rent is paid directly by the gov't.
 
rrfield said:
So welfare created the market for sex, drugs and crime? I'm pretty sure people will do drugs, have sex and hurt others no matter if they are on welfare or not.
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I never said that. I said that, since welfare was created, there has been a sharp increase in drugs, crime, and unwed births. If you're going to quote me, at least get it right. :rolleyes:

rrfield said:
]

Being on welfare is not fun. You do not "get" enough money to raise a family of three, no matter what you have heard.

rrfield
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How many folks on welfare do you know? I know quite a few, and none of them seem to eager to get a job. The ones that did get out of that trap wound up actually making less money than when they were on welfare. As for your "enough" money, who told them to have a family of three? Who forced them to live on welfare? Do they also get food stamps, section 8, and medicare? It all adds up to a give-away trap that quite a few people fall into. Don't flip me crap because they don't make enough on welfare, or that it isn't fun. I never said those things, so I guess you need to re-read your posts and mine before you try to lambaste me. ;)
 
I used to have a part-time employee on welfare (single mom of two) who actually turned down a raise becuase it would have put her over some "limit." If she'd taken the raise, she would have ended up with less money. I agree with Gato, welfare the way it is is a trap. There are people who actually need some assistance, but a lot of the people I've met who are on welfare just need to get a job. The whole system needs to be scrapped and replaced or at the very least completely revamped from the ground up.

BTW, single mom in question finally got a secretary job at a large company (Raytheon) with provided child care and got off welfare altogether, but she's the exception. I should mention that the welfare dept. helped her find the job.
 
I did not know Welfare can help find jobs I thought ti just tried to help pay the people. Prof Canada has welfare to pay for all that? crap that seems stupid. sorry but I feel Americas welfare unless it is necessary is paying people not to work. shit but that
 
Gato_Solo said:
I never said that. I said that, since welfare was created, there has been a sharp increase in drugs, crime, and unwed births. If you're going to quote me, at least get it right. :rolleyes:
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Since welfare was created, man has also landed on the moon. What's your point?
 
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