Affirmative Action Grading

Gonz

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
How far can it go?

By Mike S. Adams University Professor April 8, 2003

Dear UNC-Wilmington Students:

For years, my well-known opposition to affirmative action has been a source of great controversy across our campus, particularly among UNCW faculty. Many have assumed that my position on this topic has been a function of personal prejudice or "insensitivity" to the needs of various "disenfranchised" groups on campus and in society in general. In reality, my opposition to affirmative action has been based on personal experience.

When I first applied for a job as a university professor, a well-meaning department chair at Memphis State University (now the University of Memphis) told me that I had no chance of getting a job in his department because the only other finalist for the position was a black male. When I took a job at UNCW a month later, I hoped that I had found an environment devoid of such blatant racial discrimination. Unfortunately, my experiences here have proved otherwise. It is my constitutionally protected opinion that I have experienced direct pressure from the administration to engage in both racial and gender discrimination as a member of various university search committees.

Furthermore, I have seen examples of salary discrimination based on affirmative action. For example, one department at UNCW hired a black female as an assistant professor in 1999 before she had finalized her dissertation. Despite her inexperience, she was paid more than two tenured white male associate professors in her department who had, of course, finished their dissertations. One had been teaching at UNCW for five years, the other for seven years.

Despite all of this, I have decided to abandon my long-standing opposition to affirmative action after listening to the oral arguments in the recent U.S. Supreme Court case challenging admissions policies at the University of Michigan. While listening to these recorded arguments, I learned that public universities have a "compelling interest in diversity" which supersedes simplistic notions of reverse discrimination. Now, because my views have changed, I am forced to alter my classroom grading policies.

Students in my classes will continue to have their final grades based principally on test performance. Students will also continue to have a portion of their grade determined by class participation and/or a final paper depending on the class in which they are enrolled (please consult your course syllabus if you are one of my students).

After I compute final averages, I will then implement the new aspect of the grading process which is modeled after existing affirmative action policies at the university. Specifically, I will be computing a class average which I will then compare to the individual performance of all white males enrolled in my classes. All white males who exceed the class average will have points deducted and added to the final averages of women and minorities. A student need not have ever engaged in discrimination in order to have points deducted. Nor must a student have ever been a victim of discrimination in order to receive additional points.

I expect that my new policy will be well received by some, and poorly received by others. For those in the latter category, please contact Human Resources for further elaboration on the concept of affirmative action. You may also contact the Office of Campus Diversity for additional guidance.

I understand that many of you may consider my new position to be unprincipled. Please understand, however, that the university has long abandoned antiquated principles of "fairness" in favor of identity politics. Also understand that my job as a university professor is to prepare you for the real world.

After all, no one promised that life would always be fair.
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Hmmm...Maybe I should go back to college...What I can't get by cheating (which is also rampant), I can get by using the race card. Who needs to be intelligent anymore? ;)
 
Gato_Solo said:
Who needs to be intelligent anymore?
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Evidently the white guys, hmmm?

Seriously, Gato, does this bother you? I mean I'm a typical (I guess) white guy and I could give a good god damn what "race" someone is or isn't (we're all part of the human "race"). But I think if I were black I might be offended that so many people thought I needed all this help. Don't misunderstand me, I understand that discrimination exists, only an idiot could deny it, but isn't stuff like this just discrimination on another level? Just curious what you think.
 
Bunch of PC crap if you ask me...whatever happened to the meritocracy? No wonder most degrees aren't worth the paper they're printed on! :rolleyes:
 
chcr said:
Gato_Solo said:
Who needs to be intelligent anymore?
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Evidently the white guys, hmmm?

Seriously, Gato, does this bother you? I mean I'm a typical (I guess) white guy and I could give a good god damn what "race" someone is or isn't (we're all part of the human "race"). But I think if I were black I might be offended that so many people thought I needed all this help. Don't misunderstand me, I understand that discrimination exists, only an idiot could deny it, but isn't stuff like this just discrimination on another level? Just curious what you think.
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Hate to say this, but that is not the case. Most white folks (males especially) are the ones doing the hiring, firing, judging, etc, and you never hear the other side. Affirmative action is not just about grades or intelligence. It's about giving an equal chance. Seems that the press likes to keep dredging up one, or two, cases where there's some problem with a lower standard rather than the hundreds where there is no problem, and cause a larger problem.

Question...

Have you ever been told that you couldn't be hired because you were overqualified for the job?
 
I have been told that I wasn't eligible because at that time the company was only hiring monorities. But you know what? I understand it. The economic and educational gaps have closed much faster with the help of affirmative action and I view that as a good thing in the long run.
 
Gato_Solo said:
Have you ever been told that you couldn't be hired because you were overqualified for the job?
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Yes.

I'm sorry but I just do not agree with altering marks because of race and gender.

By all means level the playing field as much as possible by ensuring that they have adequate opportunity, housing, money, food, etc. to enable them to study but to penalise someone on those grounds is discrimination.

I would think it more likely to cause racial tension.
 
This piece was written in response to the Michigan Universiry suit...The author was making a point...

Mike S. Adams is an Associate Professor of Criminal Justice at the University of North Carolina at Wilmington. He can be contacted at the following address: [email protected].
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Aunty Em said:
Gato_Solo said:
Have you ever been told that you couldn't be hired because you were overqualified for the job?
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Yes.

I'm sorry but I just do not agree with altering marks because of race and gender.

By all means level the playing field as much as possible by ensuring that they have adequate opportunity, housing, money, food, etc. to enable them to study but to penalise someone on those grounds is discrimination.

I would think it more likely to cause racial tension.
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Here's the kicker to that question...

I was offered a job, at a lower level for lower pay, at that same company less than one month later...by the same interviewer. He claimed that this other job was more in line with my education and experience...In other words...I was overqualified to be working in the computer department, but emminently qualified to work in their janatorial division.

edited for complacency...
 
Gato_Solo said:
Have you ever been told that you couldn't be hired because you were overqualified for the job?
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Yes, but that's the exception, isn't it? They said they were afraid I'd only stay till I found something better (that's true of every job I've ever had). Most of the black people I know well enough to ask agree with you. There are exceptions, but I sometimes wonder if they're not living in a different world than the rest of us. I'm always curious, when I hear something like that that seems to affect one ethnic group or another, what members of that group think. I hate not having a frame of reference for something I think I should have an opinion on. Thanks.
 
People will always be in favor of policies that benefit themselves, and will tend to oppose those that can have a negative impact on them. When looking for jobs, getting into universities etc etc people take any advantage they can find. Do so many people really volunteer and join all these silly organizations because they enjoy it? Some maybe, but most want something to look good on their college applications. You will rarely if ever find someone who opposes something that gives them a clear advantage over someone else. And you will rarely find someone to be in favor of something that benefits someone else at their expense. I don't know if affirmative action works at its intended purpose, but if I were in a position to benefit from it, I'd be for it. Why should I lie? But since I'm not, I tend to disagree with it, not because I'm against it, but rather because its of no benefit to me, and from my perspective the true merit of the program to the overall population that in theory should benefit from it is tenuous at best. It benefits individuals, that is clear, but does it benefit the entire population of those in question? Probably not! Those who have nothing to loose by being in favor of it will be, and those who do, won't be. There are plenty of middle and upper income white males who have nothing to loose by being in favor of affirmative action, and those are the ones you hear speaking out in favor of it. On the other hand, there are many more that are against it, maybe not in principle, but because is in their self intrest to do so. If, and of course it's a big if, the program did what it was alleged to, then I'd say it would probably be better to give to one group at the expense of the other. However, I think this is probably not the best way to go about it. Differential funding for schools at an early level may be much more appropriate. However, this doesn't really address the issue either, since most of the problems with inner city schools are not the schools themselves, but the home and family envrionment. Furthermore, this isn't a racial issue, its an issue of poverty that affects all races. This is a difficult issue. Its not so simple to just say it doesn't work, its unfair, etc etc, so lets do away with it. What solution is there that would work better that we could put in place to replace affirmative action? Not much would be my guess. The arguments made for it tend to be that it benefits minorities more than it hurts the 'majority.' Going by stories I have heard from when the system was first adopted, I tend to believe that is way too simplistic and probably quite inaccurate.

Well, anyway, some of what is done seems absurd, but then again, what else could we do?

I'm against it cuz it doesn't benefit me, but at the same time, if it could benefit me, I'd change my mind. Given that people will tend to make choices in their own self interest, I'd say the system is in trouble. The number of people who should be against it is far larger than the number of people who should be for it. Its a miracle reallyl it lasted as long as it has. Its living on borrowed time now, so I guess the only question is what will they come up with to replace it when it is finally repealed? Hopefully something more effective, and more politically viable.
 
RD_151 said:
People will always be in favor of policies that benefit themselves, and will tend to oppose those that can have a negative impact on them.
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You ever wonder why so many people fail to understand this simple concept? It drives me crazy. :bash:
 
People are too concerned about being politically correct, and not being thought of as selfish, or thoughtless about others. Well, people are inately selfish, they just don't like to admit it. Even most people who "are in favor" of policies that are against their own self interest aren't really in favor of them most of the times. They ony want it to appear that they are. Of course, to be a good politician, or to portray the right image about ones self, one has to also vote in favor of issues one doesn't believe in, and also try to argue in favor of them at all costs. Otherwise, he or she may be considered unPC and selfish, greedy, and evil.

I have to give Gonz and the crew some respect for this. They certainly don't care about being PC, and at least you know what they really think.

Now you know why I will keep saying Jesse Ventura in 2004! At least he's honest, even if he can't win. He lost the vote of some of the 'simple minded' religous people who "need religion as a crutch." But at least he told us what HE really thinks, not what a focus group told him he SHOULD think. Ya gotta like that, even if you don't agree with what he says!!!
 
My very reason for opposing this is because it disadvantages those poor white students who've struggled to get to univerisity and deserve to be marked according to their ability, and if that happens to be better than a poor black or hispanic student so be it. There do happen to be wealthy minority students as well who get an unfair advantage.

Perhaps it would be better to base affirmative action on parental income and educational attainment rather than race or gender? And yes, I may well be saying this because my background is working class and I'm the first person in my family to have earned a university degree, and it took me a damn long time to get there, purely through lack of parental support initially.
 
Wealth and family connections certainly can't be overlooked. It's not all about academics, it never has been. I have to agree with you there Aunty Em. Likely those minority students who do get into U of M law, or Harvard law didn't come from underprivledged inner city schools in the first place!!! On the contrary, these programs tend to benefit middle and upper income minorities who would have gone to a decent school in the first place. It just bumps them from U of M to Harvard, or from MSU to U of M. Affirmative action doesn't work the way it was intended. I really haven't heard any kind of argument stating that it ever has.
 
The government have started a similar sort of scheme here for the top universities, they will allow them to put up their fees for those who can pay if they take enough underprivileged students based on school, parental income and educational attainment.

e.g. if your dad's a semi-skilled worker who left school with no qualifications and you went to an inner city comprehensive and have 1 A grade and 2 Bs at A level, you'll get picked before the guy whose dad is a company executive, went to private school and has 3 As. Needless to say the private schools and the middle class parents ain't happy!

It will be interesting to look back in a few years time and see if it has the desired effect of levelling the playing field a bit. I suspect all it will do is strengthen the "old boy" network when it comes to getting the top jobs.
 
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