All Hail the Minutemen Project

[Trau]

2.) some don't even have families. To say All of them just want to feed their families...

Most of them do. To bring up those that may not is a bullshit argument because the number is insignificant.

Some maybe, but why is it that they can't feed them over their?

Because Mexico's economy is shit right now and for eighty years the place was run by corrupt governments.

3.) "I'd do the same" ....Hell no I wouldn't. I'd make it Right where I was.

Why don't you think they would do the same if it was possible?

4.) "Steal half their country"??? *Now I've gotta clean the coffee off my monitor*

Have you ever heard of the Mexican-American War? Arguably the most unjustified war this country has ever initiated.

5.) Christian? Why yes I am. There's a difference in showing compassion, and getting run over.

You're not being run over by anyone.

Wow. 5 posts in and he's already proving himself list-worthy.

The simple answer, Trau, is this. Their country, like it or not, is what they've made of it. Or ... allowed others to make it.

That's easy for you to say. Change is not easy where democracy is not real.

Now considering that we have a mexican member right here in our midst (and a very highly respected member at that), noone is going to convince me that everyone in Mexico is starving, poor, or any other stereotype.

Obviously not everyone is.

So, instead of staying where they are and trying to improve it, they're trying to to benefit from the labour of others.

Stop implying that when they come here they get a free ride. They work hard labor no less than anyone else, and mostly where citizens will not.

Instead of trying to build a better Mexico with the sweat of their brow, they want to leave it behind.

How can they build a better Mexico? Do you have a plan for them?

Well, Mr. Christian ... how exactly do you think that type of personality is going to behave once it reaches the yellow brick road?

What kind of personality is that? And how will that person behave?

And as for it being easy to immigrate, the rules are in place to prevent the useless population of anywhere from deciding to up and become US dependants.

Ask many corporations how useless the Hispanic illegals are.

 

[Trau]

Funny how so many Mexicans don't like it when someone interrupts their "the US stole half our country" argument with "well, the Mexicans stole it from the Native Americans."

How did they steal it from the Native Americans?

 

[Gonz]

Most of them do. To bring up those that may not is a bullshit argument because the number is insignificant.

Care to show us or are you assuming?

Because Mexico's economy is shit right now and for eighty years the place was run by corrupt governments.

Not our problem. That is a Mexican problem.

Why don't you think they would do the same if it was possible?

All things are possible. They've proven that, in reality, No, they won't change their system.

Have you ever heard of the Mexican-American War? Arguably the most unjustified war this country has ever initiated.

I thought that was Iraq...or the Phillipines...or Vietnam.

You're not being run over by anyone.

I'll trade you tax bills.

That's easy for you to say. Change is not easy where democracy is not real.

A representative Republic is what we are.

Stop implying that when they come here they get a free ride. They work hard labor no less than anyone else, and mostly where citizens will not.

You must live somewhere they aren't shutting the system down.

How can they build a better Mexico? Do you have a plan for them?

That would be THEIR job.

Ask many corporations how useless the Hispanic illegals are.

Those who came here using an established system are probably thinking to themselves, "why didn't I break the law"?

How about simplfying matters....what is you specifics & why are you so hot & heavy to allow law breakers into our country. Is it...are you American?

 

[Inkara1]

How did they steal it from the Native Americans?

If you're THAT uninformed, you may as well stop posting about anything on this subject because you lost all credibility.

Let me see if I can simplify this enough for you to understand. Where I live is in the middle of the homeland of the Salinian Indian tribe. A bit south of me is the Chumash homeland. Perhaps you've heard of the Navajo Indians. All those tribes were here thousands of years ago, long before the Spaniards even came to Central America and breeded with the local natives to make what we know as Mexicans today.

 

[Winky]

Mods i demand an IP trace
I think Trau is Flamio!

 

[Trau]

Care to show us or are you assuming?

Assuming, of course. Just like you are.

Not our problem. That is a Mexican problem.

Sorry, you seemed like you had all the answers. My mistake.

All things are possible. They've proven that, in reality, No, they won't change their system.

I take that argument just as seriously as I take the arguments those on the left make about how if Iraqis really wanted Saddam out they'd overthrow him. And that would be not at all.

I thought that was Iraq...or the Phillipines...or Vietnam.

Don't expect me to guess which of those wars you think is most unjustified. I never brought them up myself, anyway.

But since we're on them: I don't think the Iraq war was unjustified as much as it was completely botched; the "war" in the Philippines was actually the suppression of a rebellion during which the conduct of the United States was despicable; Vietnam also seems to be one of those wars which could possibly have justification but was run by politicians and therefore screwed up.

I'll trade you tax bills.

Okay...

A representative Republic is what we are.

No shit. The word "representative" is redundant in your statement, however; a republic is representative democracy. I do not see how pointing out our own system of government has anything to do with me noting that Mexico's government is not fully democratic and therefore very hard to effect change.

You must live somewhere they aren't shutting the system down.

I guess so. And that somewhere is Planet Earth.

Those who came here using an established system are probably thinking to themselves, "why didn't I break the law"?

I doubt it.

why are you so hot & heavy to allow law breakers into our country.

I'm not hot and heavy to let lawbreakers into this country. Lord knows we have plenty who are homegrown and even occupy the highest places in our society. But when you suggest murdering people who are trying to feed their families, well that's when I am going to have to step apart from you.

Is it...are you American?

Born and raised.

Let me see if I can simplify this enough for you to understand. Where I live is in the middle of the homeland of the Salinian Indian tribe. A bit south of me is the Chumash homeland. Perhaps you've heard of the Navajo Indians. All those tribes were here thousands of years ago, long before the Spaniards even came to Central America and breeded with the local natives to make what we know as Mexicans today.

You haven't explained how the Mexicans stole land from Native Americans.

 

[Inkara1]

I guess I didn't dumb it down enough.

The Native Americans had this land before there even was such a thing as a Mexican. Therefore, they weren't there first. How much simpler could I make it?

 

[catocom]

Most of them do. To bring up those that may not is a bullshit argument because the number is insignificant.

So now you're saying gangs like MS13 are "insignificant" ?

Because Mexico's economy is shit right now and for eighty years the place was run by corrupt governments.

So you want our country to turn to shit too eh?

Why don't you think they would do the same if it was possible?

What Gonz said....20 million people can't oust the gov. there?

Have you ever heard of the Mexican-American War? Arguably the most unjustified war this country has ever initiated.

Arguably

You're not being run over by anyone.

You must not get out much.

That's easy for you to say. Change is not easy where democracy is not real.

Change is not easy when there is a good democracy. I personally don't think
it'll be easy for them. People here had to die to get even as good as it is now.

Stop implying that when they come here they get a free ride. They work hard labor no less than anyone else, and mostly where citizens will not.

When they stop getting the free ride, I'll stop implying it.
Some work hard, some are just gangbagers....
and I'm still not convinced that they are doing jobs that citizens won't.

How can they build a better Mexico? Do you have a plan for them?

Yep...REbellion.

Ask many corporations how useless the Hispanic illegals are.

Are they any "particular" ones you'd like me to ask? I'm guessing yes.

 

[catocom]

I mostly agree with this here...

"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

 

[Luis G]

- First of all, our economy isn't shit.
- Second, everyone can get a job. Problem is the "I'm too good to work for that ammount of money" attitude.
- Third, mexicans didn't overthrow the native indians (blame it on the spaniards).
- Fourth, if we have a shitty and corrupt goverment is because we deserve it and is just a reflection of the way people are. e.g Most people would bribe a cop just to get away without a ticket and still bitch about corruption in the goverment. Talk about double standards.

 

[Trau]

I guess I didn't dumb it down enough.

The Native Americans had this land before there even was such a thing as a Mexican. Therefore, they weren't there first. How much simpler could I make it?

Not being there first is not the same as stealing land.

 

[catocom]

Not being there first is not the same as stealing land.

man you just aren't even making coherent statements now.
You been drinking?

 

[Winky]

well as an avowed atheist
I'd have to say the Mess-kin's
better thank Gawd that there is an
America available to walk too

 

[catocom]

well as an avowed atheist
I'd have to say the Mess-kin's
better thank Gawd that there is an
America available to walk too

for now.... Stay tuned....

 

[Trau]

man you just aren't even making coherent statements now.
You been drinking?

If my statements are not coherent to you, that is not the fault of mine but of yours. The statement I made makes perfect, grammatical sense.

 

[Trau]

So now you're saying gangs like MS13 are "insignificant"?

We weren't talking about people who come over here to commit crimes, we were talking about people who come over here to work. But indeed the sheer amount of real criminals coming over pales when compared to those who come to work.

So you want our country to turn to shit too eh?

Exactly how is it going to turn to shit?

What Gonz said....20 million people can't oust the gov. there?

Shouldn't we have just let the Iraqis overthrow Saddam, then?

I don't know if you have ever attempted to gather support for a rebellion against a national government (and I am guessing you haven't), but it ain't easy. I know some of you like to keep it simple, but life isn't.

Arguably

Yes...arguably. That is why I used the word. There are other military actions we have undertaken that have been unjustified as well. I feel fairly comfortable that the Mexican-American War was the worst, however.

You must not get out much.

Do you have examples of any of this "running over"?

Change is not easy when there is a good democracy. I personally don't think it'll be easy for them. People here had to die to get even as good as it is now.

Then stop actinig like it is an easy feat to effect change in a corrupt government.

When they stop getting the free ride, I'll stop implying it.
Some work hard, some are just gangbagers....
and I'm still not convinced that they are doing jobs that citizens won't.

What free ride do they get? And when is the last time you saw the American throngs lining up to pick vegetables and what not?

Yep...REbellion.

Not that simple.

Are they any "particular" ones you'd like me to ask? I'm guessing yes.

Wal-Mart off the top of my head.

 

[catocom]

You seem to be hung up on the phrase "it ain't easy".
I'm not see it being said that any of it is, or would be easy.
It is in fact making it "harder" on the citizens here.

I'd answer some of those last questions you posed, but you already have
preconceived notions on them I'm sure, that you won't be dissuaded from,
so I feel no need to waste my time on it any farther.
They TRUE answers are out there, but I'm sure you won't spend any time trying
to prove your own notion wrong.

So I'll you it to their others here to bang their heads on.

 

[Trau]

I wouldn't be hung up on how difficult it is if some mebers here wouldn't continue to simplify the situation in Mexico.

And let's be honest: you won't answer my questions because you don't have answers.

 

[catocom]

And let's be honest: you won't answer my questions because you don't have answers.

So now you are calling me a lier?

Maybe tomorrow, after I've had some rest.

 

[Trau]

I haven't called you anything.