Another war we're losing....

So basically none of us at this board is qualified enough to participate in an argument about addictions, that being said, why argue at all?
 
Luis G said:
So basically none of us at this board is qualified enough to participate in an argument about addictions, that being said, why argue at all?
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It's not really that. It's just that I feel like you guys are coming off with, 'lock em up throw away the key' as a solution to the problem, when in fact good reseach has shown it does next to nothing in regards to remedying the situation. Of course you are qualified to have an opinion, but opinions are like assholes, everyones got one.

That of course applies to my opinion as well, but at least I have the schooling, the first hand experience , and have done the research, to offer at least, a somewhat educated opinion. We now know what experience SnP has, and to some extent have some insigt into chcr, although I still have lingering questions about his actual level of experience.

The rest of you who've participated in this thread have contributed absolutely nothing to it but opinions, wihtout sharing your background, or the experiences from which you have drawn your conclusions. Opinions without evidence to support them do not an argument make.

I defy anyone here to find some reasearch that refutes my position that controlled legalization is the only viable alternative. The deal is, when someone can't even be bothered to read that article I posted, and then tells me it's bullshit because it's nothing that they haven't heard 500 times, they lose any semblance of credibility they may have had with me. I suspect if you put yourself in my place you'd feel quite similarly. It's absolute lunacy to make an counter-argument against an argument you know nothing about!
 
'lock em up throw away the key'
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Choose so unwisely as to make yourself useless & a burden upon family, friends & society & locked away is where you belong. Safer for you & us.
 
markjs said:
....... my position that controlled legalization is the only viable alternative.
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Can you explain what controlled legalization would look like?

Aren't illegal drugs illegal in the first place because they are bad for you---and bad for society in general?
 
look at Amsterdam.
That can't work here though because of political correctness.
They, overall, have No problem with execution.
 
Cerise said:
Can you explain what controlled legalization would look like?

Aren't illegal drugs illegal in the first place because they are bad for you---and bad for society in general?
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Why then, aren't alcohol and tobacco illegal? Both drugs, both bad for both individuals and society in general. In fact, the tobacco guys go out of their way to make it more addictive and therefore more harmful. :shrug:

The simple fact is that prohibition doesn't work. This is obvious both historically and in the current situation. When something doesn't work, you try something else (unless you're stupid). Is it that you're afraid you'll become a drug fiend?
 
Rehab? I don't offer rehab. I offer a .45 slug to the brain for drug addicts. I'm pretty sure that its my educated opinion that the dead wont continue to abuse drugs and be a drain upon society.
 
chcr said:
Why then, aren't alcohol and tobacco illegal? Both drugs, both bad for both individuals and society in general. In fact, the tobacco guys go out of their way to make it more addictive and therefore more harmful. :shrug:
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Just because some dangerous drugs are legal that means all dangerous drugs should be legal? Alcohol and tobacco can be bad, but there are major differences between them and meth or crack.

The simple fact is that prohibition doesn't work. This is obvious both historically and in the current situation. When something doesn't work, you try something else (unless you're stupid).Is it that you're afraid you'll become a drug fiend?
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The term "legalization" gets tossed around in this thread quite a bit, but no-one has been able to suggest how it would be accomplished. :shrug:
 
Cerise said:
Just because some dangerous drugs are legal that means all dangerous drugs should be legal? Alcohol and tobacco can be bad, but there are major differences between them and meth or crack.
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You're right. Alcohol and tobacco kill tens of thousands more and cost tens of millions more.
Cerise said:
The term "legalization" gets tossed around in this thread quite a bit, but no-one has been able to suggest how it would be accomplished. :shrug:
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Like alcohol and tobacco. :shrug:

Again, prohibition does not work. It has never worked. Expecting it to suddenly start working seems a little pie-in-the-sky, doesn't it?
 
markjs said:
It's not really that. It's just that I feel like you guys are coming off with, 'lock em up throw away the key' as a solution to the problem, when in fact good reseach has shown it does next to nothing in regards to remedying the situation. Of course you are qualified to have an opinion, but opinions are like assholes, everyones got one.
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But you must concede that this is a discussion board, and if you come here with a subject, don't expect anyone to bow to your knowledge. We all have our own opinions and if anyone wants to participate on your discussion the best way to keep a cool party is to just read or discard the posts instead of disqualifying them.

The rest of you who've participated in this thread have contributed absolutely nothing to it but opinions, wihtout sharing your background, or the experiences from which you have drawn your conclusions. Opinions without evidence to support them do not an argument make.
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Why? just because you think so? think again. Educated opinions will always be on the eye of the beholder. You might think nobody has the right to think the way they do just because you *believe* the absolute truth is on your side. The reasons why everybody have drawn their own conclusions are not of your knowledge, and asking for them is well, useless.

You might not live in a state where major drug dealing violence is an everyday thing. Why else would I want anyone related to drugs to be in jail?

I defy anyone here to find some reasearch that refutes my position that controlled legalization is the only viable alternative. The deal is, when someone can't even be bothered to read that article I posted, and then tells me it's bullshit because it's nothing that they haven't heard 500 times, they lose any semblance of credibility they may have had with me. I suspect if you put yourself in my place you'd feel quite similarly. It's absolute lunacy to make an counter-argument against an argument you know nothing about!
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I defy you to try and find some research that effectively eradicates ALL drug related problems, including production, distribution, dealing AND consumption. You're just focused on the consumption/addiction part, and the problem is far more complex than that.
 
Cerise said:
Can you explain what controlled legalization would look like?

Aren't illegal drugs illegal in the first place because they are bad for you---and bad for society in general?
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I am going to acknowlege you (in the RW forum) just this once, to clarify why I don't answer you.

I have never in the entire time I have been reading your posts, seen you come up with any intelligent, original, or even mildly interesting point. Until I do, I will no longer engage in discussion with you in the RW forum, until I see some sign of orginal thinking in your posts. I will not be holding my breath.

There are others around here, who's politics and ideas make me cringe. SnP and I rarely agree, but once in a while it happens, and I respect his intelligence, and feel that he does actually think for himself even if I find his thinking flawed. Agree with him or not I find him engaging and occasionally, even surprisingly insightful. Gonz's politics make me embarrassed to be a fellow American, on a nearly daily basis, but I cannot help but respect his intelligence as a "thinking conserrvative". Sometimes his extremism makes me laugh, and sometimes scares the living hell out of me. Sometimes I even see a hint of potential for developent of an actual sense of humour in his posts, and lets face it what would I be around here without an arch enemy. With you, I mostly just scratch my head and wonder why you bother to engage in discussion with me at all, and more importantly why I should bother to reciprocate. So until you pique my interest, I have nothing more to discuss with you.

Please don't take this personally, as I am sure that politics aside you, like most people are a perfectly nice lady, it's just that, from the track record so far, I don't see anything constructive coming out of engaging in debate with you on this forum about any politcal issue. I am also not trying to say you aren't intelligent, that really isn't my issue with you either, it's mostly that I have never seen anything "unique" and/or interesting about your posts to date. That's my honest feeling.
 
Luis G said:
You might not live in a state where major drug dealing violence is an everyday thing. Why else would I want anyone related to drugs to be in jail?
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There's plenty of drug violence and crime right here in my little town, and for the life of me I can't think of any of it that would happen anymore, save for domesic squables, if legalization was the new policy.

Luis G]I defy you to try and find some research that effectively eradicates ALL drug related problems said:
Rehab? I don't offer rehab. I offer a .45 slug to the brain for drug addicts. I'm pretty sure that its my educated opinion that the dead wont continue to abuse drugs and be a drain upon society.
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BTW, they tried, precisely that, in the not so distant past in China, and it didn't work there, so I'm hoping that's some kind of a bad joke that I just don't get, because if it isn't, selling that to this country, beyond it being unconstitional, is utterly preposterous on so many levels.

Until then, I'll just consider it a debate I clearly won, albeit mostly by default.
 
markjs said:
There's plenty of drug violence and crime right here in my little town
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Let's see:
People getting robbed by junkies? (1 point)
Kids raped and murdered by junkies? (10 points)
Van stops at a red light, bunch of drug dealers come down with assault rifles, shoot some hundred rounds at another car waiting for the green light? (50 points)
Chief police officers murdered in the middle of a restaurant? (100 points)
4 hour full scale shooting (i.e thousands of rounds) between the army and drug dealers? (1000 points)

What?!? Production, in the case of legalization would become a legal and taxable business, therefore eliminating production as a major problem. Dustribution?....See Production. Dealing, is another word for distribution which has already been covered and is thus irrelavent.

Consumption and addiction are the only two problems that would not dissapear entirely in the event of a legalization policy, but they would be no greater of a problem than they are presently, and to further reduce the problems associated with them, they would have the taxation on the production and sale to pay for the problems arising because of them.
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So you're saying that (yes/no question):
Reduce the number of addicts? (I think definitely NOT)
Make them productive so they don't steal money from others? (I think definitely NOT)
Give them a brain and don't make stupid things while high? (I think definitely NOT)

I need no well written article to answer those.
 
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