Bought a car today...

Leslie said:
Luckily, Altron, none of this stuff is uber-expensive either.

Does your dad's car have a computer in it or is it older? Computer modules gone bad will make a car do that whether there's something broken or not.
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I'm pretty sure it does, it's a 97 Nissan.

I only put about five miles on it while I had problems. It steadily got worse.

Is there a way to test the alternator and the battery and the wiring? I do have the shop manual and a cheap multimeter.
 
Get a Haynes manual from *insert popular American auto shop here*, it has all the specs and the how'to's, what the voltages should be, and yes, you can. But follow the directions explicitly, and don't do anything it doesn't tell you to do, or tells you not to do. You could make it way worse if you get fiddling around.

As to your dad's car, I betcha that's what it is. My Nissan Altima used to do that, it was a 93. Tell your dad to talk to the Nissan dudes about taking it in to get the computer system diagnosed. Probably just a bad sensor. For example, if the emissions sensor is bad, the computer will compensate for his readings, the gas/air mix will get all effed up, and the car won't run, even though it's mechanically sound.
 
Leslie said:
Get a Haynes manual from *insert popular American auto shop here*, it has all the specs and what the voltages should be, and yes, you can.

As to your dad's car, I betcha that's what it is. My Nissan Altima used to do that, it was a 93. Tell your dad to talk to the Nissan dudes about taking it in to get the computer system diagnosed. Probably just a bad sensor. For example, if the emissions sensor is bad, the computer will compensate for his readings, the gas/air mix will get all effed up, and the car won't run, even though it's mechanically sound.
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He's had the Nissan dealers hook it up to their computers several times and do all the diagnostics they could, no help.
 
tonksy said:
Cars in the shop...brake calipers said screw you. Rob's pretty bummed.
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Said hi to your vehicle this morning as I dropped the wife's off. John was hoping your parts would show up today.

I then took mine to the dealer. At one point, there were 7 people underneath that thing, holding a serious pow-wow. I have a transmission leak where the wiring harness goes into the tranny. Their tranny guy is out. They were unable to find anyone else who knew how to fix the fuckin' thing, so I'm going to have to schedule another appointment to get that dealt with. I've made it clear that I WILL NOT burn another vacation day because of their personnel issues. Figure it out.

On the plus side, it will be covered by the warranty.
 
Our car is home now :D...much to Malory's chagrin...she says she liked the Mazda 6 better. Foolish child.
 
Altron said:
Is there a way to test the alternator and the battery and the wiring? I do have the shop manual and a cheap multimeter.
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*I believe* that you hook the end of the multimeter to each of the connectors on the battery.

Voltage should be 12V and current should be around 60A when accelerating, but the current should depend on the alternator type, it most likely has a label indicating it.
 
Well, as I suspected, once I turned the engine off, it wouldn't start again without a jump. I just tried ti about an hour ago, nothing. The starter isn't even turning. Going to use the jumper cables when my mom gets home from work tonight.

A cursory glance didn't spot anything amiss in the engine compartment, except revealing that the main power cable is very difficult to access, as the battery terminals are on the side facing the passenger compartment, and the lines are pretty deep in the engine bay. Don't really know how to go about checking them.

I do have a light that runs off of 12v, and it does light up when connected to the battery. Not sure whether or not it is full brightness.

The battery terminals do appear to be rusty, and I don't think my multimeter would like 60A.
 
If you jump it and all the lights and stuff work at first and then fade to black again, chances are it's the voltage regulator, so test that out first. It's the cheapest of the lot, so pray for that.
 
Note that if the alternator is bad, when the battery (that's all it's running off in this case) gets low enough the car will simply quit (and it won't care where you are) and even jumping it won't help. I wouldn't drive it until you get the problem sorted.
 
I jumped it and it started up fine and everything. Was idling for a few minutes after disconnecting it. Put it into gear, lost the head unit (It's very easy to tell when it goes, it's a backlight blue LCD on all day, all night, when the radio is off, and when the radio is on. Really pisses me off. Turning it off puts on the clock for like thirty seconds, then it goes into this super annoying 'Demo Mode' where it flashes the feautures at you. Just show me what fucking time it is. I don't care whether it has an equalizer, or that it has an aux input, or that it has 6 presets or whatever.
Well, as it gets moving, the radio goes out. The headlights are dim again. I go around the corner, the thing feels like it's stalling. I hit it enough to get moving again, but it's taking much more gas pedal movement to get the same power. I make it back, put it in park, and get out. The headlights are very dim, an orange-yellow color instead of a white-yellow color. The engine doesn't sound right. I would have to describe it as 'wheezing'. It managed to stay running for a little, then I turned it off.
 
One thing is for sure: you need a new battery.

Most batteries when dried entirely will burn some cells, so even if the battery was not the problem, it is now.

But here the problem splits:
- The battery was fine but the alternator failed and fucked up the battery.
- The alternator is fine and the battery failed.


*used to have a lots of alternator problems on the datsun.
 
Altron said:
I jumped it and it started up fine and everything. Was idling for a few minutes after disconnecting it. Put it into gear, lost the head unit (It's very easy to tell when it goes, it's a backlight blue LCD on all day, all night, when the radio is off, and when the radio is on. Really pisses me off. Turning it off puts on the clock for like thirty seconds, then it goes into this super annoying 'Demo Mode' where it flashes the feautures at you. Just show me what fucking time it is. I don't care whether it has an equalizer, or that it has an aux input, or that it has 6 presets or whatever.
Well, as it gets moving, the radio goes out. The headlights are dim again. I go around the corner, the thing feels like it's stalling. I hit it enough to get moving again, but it's taking much more gas pedal movement to get the same power. I make it back, put it in park, and get out. The headlights are very dim, an orange-yellow color instead of a white-yellow color. The engine doesn't sound right. I would have to describe it as 'wheezing'. It managed to stay running for a little, then I turned it off.
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The battery is losing it's charge. This does not necessarily mean it needs replacing. my guess is the alternator. The voltage regulator is built into the alternator on your car.

Now, understand I don't recommend this, but... I have in the past driven a car daily on just the battery and recharged it at night until I got the funds together for a rebuilt alternator. This assumes you have access to a battery charger and it will shorten the life of the battery. Don't listen to the stereo (I know, I know) or run the headlights or heater if you can help it. The heater doesn't use electricity so you can put it on heat, but the blower motor uses quite a lot so don't turn the fan on.

BTW, installing an alternator in that car is much easier than installing a processor and heat sink, for instance. Don't forget to disconnect the battery before you start. :D

Edit: Note that even if you change the alternator immediately you should still have the battery fully charged off the car before you start it again. A low battery can make an alternator fail occasionally.
 
My uncle, automotive engineer, said that I should test the battery with my voltmeter. If it reads under 12v, it should be recharged. If recharging doesn't help, it should be replaced. The car should be started however possible, and the battery measured again. It should be at least 1v higher than it was before.

Of course, if the battery isn't charged and starting it doesn't increase the voltage, then the alternator is not necessarily shot, it could be putting out just enough to run the engine, not enough to charge the battery.

My charger is 10A. How long should I put it on to charge?

I'm also going to clean the connectors with baking soda, warm water, and a toothbrush.
 
Re how long to charge, it depends on the state of charge in the battery. At least four hours if it won't start the car. Your charger should have some kind of indicator that shows when the battery is fully charged. Many of them even shut off automatically.

Re your uncle's advice, he's correct of course. I would say that if the alternator is working though, that you should read at least 12.7 volts at the battery with the car running (probably more like 13.5).

The main reasons for an alternator not working correctly are: loose or worn out belt, loose pulley (check either of these by trying to turn the alternator by hand, if you can then clearly the belt is slipping), bad brushes, bad diode trio, bad regulator (these are all fairly easy and inexpensive to replace if you know a couple of tricks, let me know if you want to try it), bad stator or armature (in either of these cases replace the alternator). Any decent service manual should give you ranges of resistance values for each individual piece (I probably have a chart still somewhere, but you probably don't want to wait until you're thirty while I look for it ;) ). Remember that a remanufactured alternator simply bolts into place, is relatively inexpensive for your car, virtually everyone that sells them will test your current one for free and the remans come with all new bearings and bushings as well.
 
Altron said:
My uncle, automotive engineer, said that I should test the battery with my voltmeter. If it reads under 12v, it should be recharged. If recharging doesn't help, it should be replaced. The car should be started however possible, and the battery measured again. It should be at least 1v higher than it was before.

Of course, if the battery isn't charged and starting it doesn't increase the voltage, then the alternator is not necessarily shot, it could be putting out just enough to run the engine, not enough to charge the battery.

My charger is 10A. How long should I put it on to charge?

I'm also going to clean the connectors with baking soda, warm water, and a toothbrush.
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Wear eye protection. A grain of that shit in your eye will really ruin your day.
 
Altron said:
Edit - I read 11.1v across the battery, without charging.
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TOAST.

Many garages won't even install a new altenator in a car without insisting on changing the battery too.
 
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