Break out the history eraser again!

SouthernN'Proud

SouthernN'Proud

Southern Discomfort
from tonguetied.us...


The Rev. Al Sharpton will go to Memphis, Tenn. for a rally this weekend to try and force the locals to rename three city parks currently named for Confederate notables, reports Blackamericaweb.com.

Sharpton, head of the National Action Network, said the struggle to remove the names of Jefferson Davis, former president of the Confederacy, and Nathan Bedford Forrest, a Civil War hero and later grand wizard of the KKK, from the parks is a "significant national battle" that needs to be won.

City officials in Memphis are under pressure to rename Forrest Park, where Forrest and his wife are buried, Confederate Park and Jefferson Davis Park because the names are standing in the way of progress.


**end**

Point number 1: The allegation that Forrest was a grand wizard of the KKK are true, but incomplete. Forrest started the KKK. He disbanded it shortly after, BEFORE it adopted its current agenda. No one likes to add that part of the story. Thought I would. You're welcome.

Point number 2: I would like to ask a serious favor. I rarely ask you guys for much of anything, so please humor an overweight white guy with funny looking elbows here, m'kay? Thanks.

Here's the favor. If you read this post, and you honest to God deep down in your heart truly believe that renaming something is the best way to heal a perceived blight, problem, embarressment, or other malady, just reply to this post and say so. I won't pick on you. I'm just curious. Cuz ya see, a whole bunch of folk must really believe that renaming something cures everything...because we as a society sure as hell do enough of it.

On the other hand, if you think that renaming something accomplishes very little in reality that is useful to humanity as a whole, please do likewise. Again, I'm just curious.

Point number 3: If Al Sharpton is the answer, it must have been a damn stupid question to begin with.

Point number 4 and final: Shortly after these parks are renamed to vanquish the names of such offensive people, we need to rename Martin Luther King Jr schools nationwide, as he was a well known adulterer, and that's offensive as hell isn't it?
 
Leslie said:
why?
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thought so.

Forrest sympathizers have long claimed that he disbanded the Klan when it became violent. In fact, it had been extremely violent for years under Forrest, and was only disbanded when its work was essentially done — blacks and Republicans had been terrified into not voting — and when it came under intense criticism.
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http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=518

The man doesn't merit honour nor celebration. I say strip him of it. End.
 
a whole bunch of folk must really believe that renaming something cures everything
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Just a few noisy, self-important ones. I fail to see how renaming a park (or anything else) in any way changes either history or what passes for it in America today.
 
Are any of these parks in a predominantly black neighborhood? If yes (it wasn't clear in the article from Blackamericaweb.com that I read, which kind of leads me to believe they are not) then I can see why the residents would want to change the name, regardless of any perceived rewriting of history by white southerners. To them the confederacy does represent oppression to their relatives. The KKK, regardless of context, probably isn’t what black people like to think of when playing in a park on a nice sunny day.

IMO changing a name doesn't do much, but then again I'm not a member of any group that gets offended very often (outside of Pollock jokes and the occasional "papist" remarks from certain protestants). I'd say there are other more overtly racist problems in society that need to be taken care of first. Apparently the head of the local NAACP can see there are other priorities as well...
Johnny Turner said:
At this point, we are involved in so many more projects that are germane to the racism that’s present currently and working adversely against our people.
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I don't think anyone is under the illusion that changing the name will solve everything. I can see how someone would see it as a step in the right direction though. Baby steps.
 
rrfield said:
Are any of these parks in a predominantly black neighborhood? If yes (it wasn't clear in the article from Blackamericaweb.com that I read, which kind of leads me to believe they are not) then I can see why the residents would want to change the name, regardless of any perceived rewriting of history by white southerners. To them the confederacy does represent oppression to their relatives. The KKK, regardless of context, probably isn’t what black people like to think of when playing in a park on a nice sunny day.
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I wasn't aware Sharpie lived in Tenn.
 
To answer, rr...

Memphis is predominantly black as a whole.

Also, white Southerners are not the ones rewriting history, unless one chooses to define that in terms of bringing accurate history to the forefront in place of revisionist malarky that has been peddled for 140 years as history.

And thank you for your opinion. I solicited them, and I appreciate the ones posted so far.
 
SouthernN'Proud said:
To answer, rr...

Memphis is predominantly black as a whole.

Also, white Southerners are not the ones rewriting history, unless one chooses to define that in terms of bringing accurate history to the forefront in place of revisionist malarky that has been peddled for 140 years as history.

And thank you for your opinion. I solicited them, and I appreciate the ones posted so far.
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I typed that wrong. I wasn't saying white southerners are rewritting history, I was saying white southerners perceive that history is being rewritten.
 
Professur said:
I wasn't aware Sharpie lived in Tenn.
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Yeah, having Sharpton lead this does knock down the credibility of "the cause".

I'm not saying I agree with changing the names of the parks; I don't live in Memphis and I don't have any emotional ties to confederate heroes. I can honestly see both sides of the argument.
 
Y'see, that's my problem with it all. If the locals want a park name changed, by all means. Sharpie has an agenda. An axe to grind.
 
SouthernN'Proud said:
I'll counter this when I get home, where the sites are saved.
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Don't bother, I read the sappy sweet sugary spin too.

That, and it isn't my history, so I really don't care. I was just curious as to the reason he disbanded. If he'd really had an honest turnaround, then fine. But that wasn't what happened, from all accounts.

I'm shocked that you're not deeply ashamed that this man was on 'your side', however.
 
Leslie said:
Don't bother, I read the sappy sweet sugary spin too.

That, and it isn't my history, so I really don't care. I was just curious as to the reason he disbanded. If he'd really had an honest turnaround, then fine. But that wasn't what happened, from all accounts.

I'm shocked that you're not deeply ashamed that this man was on 'your side', however.
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*sigh*

History is written by the victors. You know that. With that fact aside, events are still documented. If one takes the time to read them open mindedly, one can draw one's own conclusions.

As I said earlier, he did form the KKK. Everyone is quick to credit him with this deed. It is also conveniently at this point that the history(ies) vary.

Nathan Bedford Forrest was a tremendous military man, a feared opponent, and a respected leader. His military record would make anyone proud.

His civilian record? Aside from his affiliation with the KKK, which he disbanded prior to its current day and WELL DESERVED infamy, the man lived his days out peacefully. His fiery temper never quite quenched completely, but he was far from the ravaging racist the revisionist history writers have you convinced he was.

But as I said before, believe as you will. I made my request not to start any kind of debate; simply for input on the topic noted. I appreciate your opinion. As far as my being ashamed to have him fought for the Confederacy...far from it.

And if your mind is already made up, then I'll save myself the time of scoping out the info I have on him. Your opinion of it has been documented as well, and you have that right. Not my intent here to stir pots, and I won't. I know full well that the majority of people are unreceptive to any factual information that ruffles their coziness. So be it.

Peace.
 
You should read more...he did not found the KKK. He did however proclaim his full solidarity with the group and it's intentions, and join as Grand Wizard, after Lee turned the offer down.

He was an exceedingly violent and cruel man. As evidenced (I've found from just a tiny bit of reading outside your box) in newspaper accounts, and statements by his own men for starters.

Yeah, he was apparently a good military man for his time. However, I see nothing honourable about him. Omitting to state what he DID do doesn't make him honourable. Talk about rewriting history. :rolleyes:

I've sat here and I've read some REALLY disgusting shit from all sides of this coin. I sat here and read KKK pages, I sat here and read white supremacy pages, oh, and the freemasons too, I read some encyclopaedia entries, I read some university and college pages, and I sat here and read some really freaking sappy 'historical' pages. And but for the really freaking sappy Go Confederacy!!!111 'historical' pages, they ALL said the same thing.

Perhaps you may one day consider branching out in YOUR choice of reading materials and look at those with an open mind.
 
I have done all that reading and more.

Anyone who considers university papers objective has more issues than Sports Illustrated IMO.

I am not out to change your mind.

I am not trying to sway your opinion of the man.

He isn't even the topic of this thread, nor the topic I asked for input on.

I do find it interesting that every source you cite seems to hold credibility for you save one. But I'm brainwashed.

Fascinating.

No ill will from this end. Not going there. Simply replying, no more.

It's your mind; make it as you please.
 
chcr said:
Just a few noisy, self-important ones. I fail to see how renaming a park (or anything else) in any way changes either history or what passes for it in America today.
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See if you could see from their point of view(to do so you need to insert your head into your ass. I dont see you doing that so you wont see how it changes). They probably dont want to erase or rewrite it. They want to outright ignore it IMO
 
Barrow to pay ACLU in Ten Commandments battle
WINDER — Barrow County commissioners have agreed to pay $150,000 to the American Civil Liberties Union as part of a court agreement over a Ten Commandments display that has been removed from the courthouse.

Commissioners voted Tuesday night to pay the money.

Barrow County and the ACLU agreed to settle a federal lawsuit last month and remove the Ten Commandments display hanging in a breezeway of the courthouse. As a part of the settlement, U.S. District Judge William O'Kelley ordered Barrow County to pay "John Doe" — an anonymous Barrow County resident who sued the county — $1 in damages. The $150,000 is for legal fees.

Commissioner Bill Brown hung the display in the courthouse in 2002, though it was a year before the ACLU filed the lawsuit.

The county has spent more than $264,000 defending the lawsuit, not including the $150,000 the government must pay to settle the lawsuit. The county has recovered more than $212,000 from private donations.
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source

Yup, it's all about the people's rights.
 
Renaming parks, streets and monuments does little else but upset some portion of the populace all the while encouraging the remaining portion. The reasoning behind it is quickly lost and forgotten.

What this does do though...is invite discourse...and that's usually a good thing. Might not stop the name-change, but maybe put a bit of knowledge into people's hands. :)
 
Jefferson Davis is a very important figure in US History. The Klan wizard needs to share billing with Robert "Sheets" Byrd.
 
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