Crap!! U.S. life span shorter

i thought I answered your number one pretty clearly. That's already the case in many places in the US. Fire dept's are obliged to preserve life in cases where the fees haven't been paid, but not make any effort to preserve property. Mountain rescue has been billing the folk they pull out of the wilderness for a while too. If police are allowed to retain the fines charged against lawbreakers ... they'd be off the taxpayer's back in short order.
 
Maybe you could you could provide a link to this info about the Fire Departments and how police retaining fines against lawbreakers would make them profitable?

Regardless it does not address the issue I raised of privatizing police and fire. It also does it address accepting or declining calls on a basis of profit, they are still required to protect people regardless of finances involved.
 
I answered your question about privatizing emergency services by showing that they are part of government responsibilities.

You never answered my question about full & complete housing & food for all Americans.

How would a course in finance help her get health insurance exactly
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By showing you that more dollars going out than coming in, makes an unprofitable, and subsequently unmanageable, system, therefor making such an operation useless.

Tell me please, what other arrangements could we have made or can we make now?
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I don't know. I don't have all the information to make a rational decision. I can point pout that decisions made in teh past have hurt your present. Had you gotten married, you could add her to your insurance. Perhaps, now, you could pay for her COBRA coverage.

If you could show some info on how pandering to religious nuts for your healthcare problems led to less disease, longer lifespans, and less people going without the care they needed then go ahead and link it up.
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I never said any such thing.

Taking advantage of a system that was available does not equate to personal responsibility
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Yea, it does. There was a problem. We found a solution ubstead of whiing after the fact about the unfair system.

My girlfriend has certainly earned equal consideration
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Perhaps. Did you downgrade your lifestyle to fit her expenses in? Did you take advantage to what is available? Are you still doing research on possible ansewrs to your dilemma?
 
Wanna know why we live in a 50 year old house in the "lesser" part of town?
 
spike said:
Maybe you could you could provide a link to this info about the Fire Departments and how police retaining fines against lawbreakers would make them profitable?

Regardless it does not address the issue I raised of privatizing police and fire. It also does it address accepting or declining calls on a basis of profit, they are still required to protect people regardless of finances involved.
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http://www.otcentral.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21796&highlight=fire+fee*

I told you it had been discussed here. A simple search would have found it for you. As for privatizing the cops ... it's yet to be tried (to the best of my knowledge)
 
Gonz said:
I answered your question about privatizing emergency services by showing that they are part of government responsibilities.
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No, you mentioned something about "protection" being in the Constitution after which I pointed out that since health issues are the primary threats to Americans that it would certainly fall under "protection".

You dropped off around that point on the subject.

By showing you that more dollars going out than coming in, makes an unprofitable, and subsequently unmanageable, system, therefor making such an operation useless.
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First of all that information does not help my girlfriend get health insurance at all so your sidestepping the question.

Maybe you're saying that giving my girlfriend insurance would be a useless operation since possibly more dollars would be going out than coming in. If that's the case your son never should have been covered.

What screws up the system IS the focus on profit. When the primary goal is making money instead of treating people so they get better it distorts the whole thing into our current mess where doctors treat symptoms with drugs so patients keep coming back and the drug manufacturers keep making money. I think the favorite is getting people strung out on pain killers instead of fixing the cause of the pain. The system is downright broken because of the wrong goals.

It wouldn't be nearly as profitable if they just fixed the cause of the problem so you didn't need to come back or stay on the medication.

I don't know. I don't have all the information to make a rational decision. I can point pout that decisions made in teh past have hurt your present.
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No, you can't.

Had you gotten married, you could add her to your insurance.
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I could add her to my insurance married or not if my company wasn't going through a buyout and I had insurance myself at the moment. However, there's no reason why people should have to be in a relationship at all in order to get healthcare.

Perhaps, now, you could pay for her COBRA coverage.
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COBRA is bullshit and would cost us over $800/month just to cover her. Looks like we might be able to get her on Medi-Cal although there would still be the "stay poor" issue.

I never said any such thing.
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I thought you were advocating it because it "worked" better not because it worked worse. My bad.

Yea, it does. There was a problem. We found a solution ubstead of whiing after the fact about the unfair system.
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Nope, you just lucked out and only had to pay a fraction of what you owed. We're not only finding a solution but also actually trying to encourage a system that would help all the other people in her situation too.

Perhaps. Did you downgrade your lifestyle to fit her expenses in? Did you take advantage to what is available? Are you still doing research on possible ansewrs to your dilemma?
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Hell yeah we downgraded that's how we've been able to save so much. We've also been taking advantage of our proximity to Mexico to save money on medication. After being told she wouldn't be eligible for Medicaid for 24 months we've found the possibility of Medi-Cal coverage.
 
The trouble with conservative of Gonz's variety, is they lack any empathy. They cannot, or will not, hypothetically put themselves, in the shoes of those less fortunate. Even SnP, concedes that there should be some assitance for those who are disabled and cannot provide for their own care. To the best of my knowlege conservatives of Gonz's variety would do away with all government aid, or welfare programs including social security, if it'd save them a few dollars in taxes.

It sounds to me that Gonz's son was a big liabilty for the insurance company and they paid out far more than they were paid by Gonz. He's lucky he was able to get the help he did, but remember that insurance company wouldn't be in business if they weren't making big money. If they could have legally dumped the kid and denied to cover, and honor the policy, you can bet your sweet ass they would have. They charge premiums high enough that taking a loss on a small percentage of their policy holders, is a non issue for them. The scary part of the system being almost wholly driven by profit, is that insurance companies, and HMOs have lawyers writing increasingly tricky fine print into their policies, and the companies have specialists working to find a loophole so as not to have to cover their policy holders in the event of an expensive emergency.

I don't know if a 100% socialized medicine program would work in this county, and not being an economist, nor a healthcare profesional, I don't have a clear picture of what s needed, but I do feel empathy for those in need of care that cannot afford it and so go without. I also know that the system as it is stinks, and is in need of some kind of reform. This nation is so abundantly wealthy and prosperous, that there is no excuse for us to not keep up with the rest of the civilized world. In some nations socialized medicine does work, and in some it doesn't, but at least those systems try to not let people slip through the cracks.
 
Debt sucks. We paid cash for our cars and I got rid of all my credit cards a couple years ago and go debit card only. She keeps one gold card for emergencies that has pretty much no balance on it.
 
spike said:
COBRA is bullshit and would cost us over $800/month just to cover her. Looks like we might be able to get her on Medi-Cal although there would still be the "stay poor" issue.
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Well, there ya go.

He (they) have an opportunity to get coverage but they'd prefer the rest of us pay for it.

Sorry. No. Pay your own way. I'm tapped.
 
markjs said:
The trouble with conservative of Gonz's variety, is they lack any empathy.
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Lots of empathy. I help people on a regular basis. I chose to help people. I'm not forced at gunpoint to help them.

The problem with people of your variety is the lack of insight into the human condition. Giving a man something destroys his spirit. Having him earn what he needs strengthens it.
 
BTW, I take back the wish that you become disabled, exhaust your savings, and then get denied any kind of aid when you need it....Because it'd effect your son, but after he's 18 if that happend, I'd get quite a sense of satisfaction in that you got your just deserts.
 
I didn't burn all my bridges. But don't concern yourself. The government will never provide my sustenance. By my choice.
 
Gonz said:
Well, there ya go.

He (they) have an opportunity to get coverage but they'd prefer the rest of us pay for it.
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Go ahead and tell me how an unemployed person to sick to work is supposed to come up with $800/month. How much does your wife's coverage cost?

Sorry. No. Pay your own way. I'm tapped.
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As soon as you pay back the quarter million you owe.

Couldn't help but notice you skipped most of my points above. That mean you concede those points?
 
The majority of people in this country (UK) pay for the national health service through national insurance contributions which are compulsary if you earn over a certain amount (%age of net income), whether you choose to pay for private health insurance or not. It also provides entitlement to unemployment benefits (job seekers allowance) and long-term sickness (incapacity) benefits if you're out of work or unable to work and the basic state pension. Income Support provides for those who have not contributed for whatever reason or as a top-up to the previous benefits if they are below what the law says you need to live on (means tested).

Certain people like the disabled, long-term sick, full-time carers (over 35 hours per week) or anyone caring for children under 16 get their contributions to the previous benefits credited while they are unable to work in yearly increments. That means if it's less than a year, no credit e.g. 3 years 7 months is 3 years credits (april to march). Only a very small proportion of people do not pay anything. There are back to work schemes for disabled, long-term sick, over 50s, lone parents (children over 5). Plus various training schemes for unemployed people... you also have to prove you are looking for work... more than 6 months unemployed and they are compulsary. You lose benefit if you dont comply.

Our health care system is not FREE, contrary to popular belief... but it is free at the point of distibution... this is where it is abused by foreign nationals and they are seeking a way to close this loophole... ID cards probably, which include your national health number. People will still be entitled to emergency treatment, but no follow-up unless they are registered with a doctor and have that number. Nor does it pay for everything as some disputes over certain drugs and treatments testify. For the majority of people it works, the difficulty comes where there is a dispute over treatment. Private health schemes do not cover emergency treatment in this country.

Our system isn't intended to allow you to live in luxury, just to have a minimum level which no-one should slip below and the rates are set out by law, they're not discretionary and it's improving all the time. I do believe that we have a certain amount of social responsibility, but that we also have a personal responsibility to support ourselves and our families and not to abuse the system.
 
spike said:
Go ahead and tell me how an unemployed person to sick to work is supposed to come up with $800/month. How much does your wife's coverage cost?
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You pay for her coverage.
None of your business-however, I pay for it.

spike said:
HA! Who signed those unemployment checks of yours?
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The boss who laid me off paid the UI.
 
Gonz said:
You pay for her coverage.
None of your business-however, I pay for it.
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And people that don't have someone to pay their BS COBRA? Face it the system is broken.

The boss who laid me off paid the UI.
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Nope, those checks came from the government paid for by a forced tax (I remember you using that term) on most business owners.

Medi-Cal on the other hand would come from tax money that people like me and her pay into.
 
The "BS" COBRA is actually a neat system. You want to continue your coverage? Pay for it.

Let's see....$800./ month for, what is it now, 18 months

vs

a $20,000. (100,000, 250,000, 500,000) medical bill.

You really do need to take an accounting class.
 
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