Do the Palestinians reall want peace?

[ris]

the israeli military have repeatedly used human shields, including children. i seem to recall human rights organisations in israel taking the government there to court for their use and winning a ruling. it seems that even since then the practice has continued under the 'neighbourhood' policy. israeli human rights organisation, b'tselem bbc

arafat is outdated, out of touch and no longer relevant to the peace process in reality. he has little control over the islamic extremists and has lost much support with the palestinian people for the corruption of the office.
he is a sign of the intransigence of the palestinian authority that with hope abu mazen will be able to break free of a get movement. in my mind sharon is equally as divisive and immovable as arafat - he appears to be stalling on the roadmap that so much was placed on.

sharon stands for as much violence, hatred and intransigence to the palestinians as arafat does to the israelis. until they both step aside and the newer generation step forward the future looks bleak.

 

[Squiggy]

this thread is

Ditto....

 

[Gato_Solo]

ok.

not going to participate with YOU in this discussion. i knew in advance how you were going to respond, as true pro-israeli guy.

both parties are guilty in this matter, but the whole attitude of "the other one is most guilty" is fucking up peace talks for at least the last decade. hard to accept

What you seem to forget, SF, is that rocks kill people, too. Also...If I'm carrying an automatic weapon, and you throw a rock at me, regardless of your age, does that make you less guilty?

 

[Justintime]

Shadowfax, leave him alone, he knows what hes talking about, hes probably an isreali too

 

[chcr]

Also...If I'm carrying an automatic weapon, and you throw a rock at me, regardless of your age, does that make you less guilty?

Not less guilty and not less stupid either.

@ Justin.

 

[Gonz]

suicide attacks, no. but they do tend to 'coincidently' point another missile to a car in the street, which just 'happens' to have an important assumed criminal aboard, preferably on critical moments.

That's called an armed response. I see nothing wrong with it. One (or more) less criminal in the world.

no, but they will certainly have their revenge.

Good.


chcr, it's funny you chose to respond. After having two more days (in the truck) to think about it, I've changed my mind. This is a community that has "killing zionists" is a good thing" music videos. They teach their children, from birth, to attack & destroy Israel. They do not love their children. They procreate in order to have more attackers.

Everybody that believes that there hasn't been enough diplomacy & too much violence, ponder this: It's been 50+ years of talk. When is it time to declare war?

 

[ris]

there is just as much blind hatred from the israeli hardliners and militants - both sets of people are caught in a spiral of violence that they seem unable to come out of.

i don't believe that there has been anywhere near enough serious talking, there is still a great deal of suspiscion of each other putting a barrier between them.

the notion that all palestinians are terrorists is a sad one, like most miltants they are a minority whose actions frighten and shame both sides. the idea that they do not love their children and indocrinate them into hatred is a demonisation of a people that is unsupported and a part of the problem.
there will be those who do such things but there is no evidence of widespread terrorist indocrination. there is evidence of fear and suspiscion on both sides.

 

[chcr]

both sets of people are caught in a spiral of violence that they seem unable to come out of.

And have been since before there were Muslims or even Jews.

 

[Gonz]

there is no evidence of widespread terrorist indocrination.

Here

and here

and here

show that there is indoctrination. Among MANY others.
Too bad they're like the GetUSout web site, full of facts but questionalble integrity.

 

[ris]

i am happy to stand corrected and it is very interesting but as you said yourself, of questionable integrity. it does illustrate the need for change in the palestinian authority which hopefully will come about with the new prime minister and the shedding of the old and irrelevant.
it should be noted that the plo [pa] website has quite specific parts of the site that deal with the criticism of its educational system as indoctrinal and purports to show its compliance with all the proper agreements.

equally there are websites that provide information into how extremists in israel indoctrinate the young, and how the israeli school system purport palestinians and arabs in a negative light, such as here.

it merely serves to illustrate the point - that both sides are fixed into a cycle of mutual hatred. the notion that all palestinians are evil terrorists full of hate and therefore deserve what the israeli military do in reprisal is as wayward and destructive as the racist dogma that consistently placed the world's ills at the feet of the jewish religion during and since the medieval times.

they will have to learn to live side by side and both will have to compromise in major ways. at the moment the situation only plays into the hands of the extremists.

 

[chcr]

Everybody that believes that there hasn't been enough diplomacy & too much violence, ponder this: It's been 50+ years of talk. When is it time to declare war?

They are at war, declared or not. Understand, I think the Israelis have every right to be paranoid, every right to defend themselves. It's not a holy war, it's a racial war that's been blowing hot and cold since before Abraham. I've always thought that it's unlikely that it will stop until one side or the other is wiped out. I don't think that will ever happen. Having said that, I still think if you asked the average Israeli or Palestinian on the street, they would answer that they just want it to be over. I want them to define over, because I don't really think I'd find either definition palatable.