Europe and Israel: What went wrong?
- Thread starter HeXp£Øi±
- Start date
Gato_Solo
Out-freaking-standing OTC member
Squiggy said:
Not sure. I think it had something to do with the royal family more than US pressure. His family disowned him at the same time, and family is one of the most important tenets in Islamic life, so I think we both need to look at this a little closer before we start casting dispersions.
Squiggy
ThunderDick
Gato_Solo said:Not sure. I think it had something to do with the royal family more than US pressure. His family disowned him at the same time, and family is one of the most important tenets in Islamic life, so I think we both need to look at this a little closer before we start casting dispersions.
He wanted SA to stop being Americas puppet and stand up for the Islamic faith. His family was making tons of money with their US partners [cough]Bush[cough] and he resented it....Guess family didn't mean as much as money to the Bin Ladens...
Squiggy said:I don't think they wanted the world to give away their land in that 5000 years either. They just wanted to be left alone. Argue this after you've given your housekeys and deed to a native American. You'll have a more valid arguement then...
They weren't an organized collective agreeing to a central set of political rules. EVER. The Palestinians nor the American Indian.
The people of the palestinian region have been under the thumb of probably more rulers than any group in history. Hell, it was named Palestine by Ceasar.
The American Indian were no more native than the EU trash. They just go there sooner. The Vikings warned 'em we were coming.
chcr
Too cute for words
I don't know about anyone else, but I think it's a little foolish to take that at face value. Especially given the lack of cogent information the Saudis are willing to share.Gato_Solo said:
Might makes right, Squiggs. You don't have to agree with it or like it but it will never change.Squiggy said:
Gato_Solo
Out-freaking-standing OTC member
Squiggy said:I don't think they wanted the world to give away their land in that 5000 years either. They just wanted to be left alone. Argue this after you've given your housekeys and deed to a native American. You'll have a more valid arguement then...
Psst...this whole Jewish homeland problem started with the Diaspora during the later years of the Roman Empire. Between the creation of the first 'Israel' and then, Jews and Arabs lived together mostly in peace and harmony. In fact, Arabs were thought to be the decendents if Ishmael, and were treated as distant cousins...which they are. After the stoning of Mohammed by Jews, in the mid 1600's, they became 'mortal enemies'. Anywho...the Romans drove the Jews from their homeland, and the area was used only by nomads and the Jews who refused to leave (they went 'underground').
Interestingly enough, Mohammed was believed to be Jewish himself.
The main difference between Islam and Judaism is in how God is worshipped, not whether or not their God is the same. The Koran states that the God of Israel, the God of Islam, and the God of Christianity is the same God. If they believe that that is true, then why is everyone so angry?
Squiggy
ThunderDick
Gonz said:They weren't an organized collective agreeing to a central set of political rules. EVER. The Palestinians nor the American Indian.
The people of the palestinian region have been under the thumb of probably more rulers than any group in history. Hell, it was named Palestine by Ceasar.
The American Indian were no more native than the EU trash. They just go there sooner. The Vikings warned 'em we were coming.
Oh...I didn't know they had no tribes or chiefs back then. How stupid of me...
Your reasoning is ....interesting...
Squiggy
ThunderDick
Gato_Solo said:Psst...this whole Jewish homeland problem started with the Diaspora during the later years of the Roman Empire. Between the creation of the first 'Israel' and then, Jews and Arabs lived together mostly in peace and harmony. In fact, Arabs were thought to be the decendents if Ishmael, and were treated as distant cousins...which they are. After the stoning of Mohammed by Jews, in the mid 1600's, they became 'mortal enemies'. Anywho...the Romans drove the Jews from their homeland, and the area was used only by nomads and the Jews who refused to leave (they went 'underground').
Interestingly enough, Mohammed was believed to be Jewish himself.
Ahhh...So to borrow Gonz's arguement, the jews were a defeated people and no longer had claim to the land...Its getting clearer...innit?
HeXp£Øi±
Well-Known Member
Gato_Solo said:Interestingly enough, Mohammed was believed to be Jewish himself.
Even so Islam teaches that the mere existance of Israel is an insult to Islam. To make it even worse these ideas aren't even presented as a duality to be understood.
Something like...sure you can go in the water, just don't get wet...
Gato_Solo
Out-freaking-standing OTC member
Squiggy said:Ahhh...So to borrow Gonz's arguement, the jews were a defeated people and no longer had claim to the land...Its getting clearer...innit?
The Romans wouldn't allow anyone to settle there. They had this idea in their heads that anybody settling in that region would cause problems for their 'status quo'. Go figure.
As for the quote about native Americans, that was uncalled for in this debate. Especially the way you used that particular phrase. If you want to give your house over to the native American's, I'm sure they'd appreciate it, but we both know you won't do that, don't we.
Squiggy
ThunderDick
Gato_Solo said:As for the quote about native Americans, that was uncalled for in this debate. Especially the way you used that particular phrase. If you want to give your house over to the native American's, I'm sure they'd appreciate it, but we both know you won't do that, don't we.
Gonz has repeatedly stated that Israel belonged to the jews and we just gave it back to them. The statement is very valid and appropriate in this discussion. I stand by it.
And Hex, I never said that I thought Osama was doing something good. But Hitler had himself a country and more wealth than he came from. Osama had only his belief in his faith...Not a very good comparison.
Squiggy said:
No I haven't. I've said that the Palestinians have never had a country.
The Jews & the Arabs have both been in the vicinity of where Israel now stands & the Jews have as much right to the land as the Arabs. When the UN decided to split the land, the Palestinians said they didn't want a country. The Jews jumped for joy & said they did. Now the Arabs, in general, are using the Palestinian people as scapegoats. They don't want the Pals in their backyard & they hate the Jews so, "lets start a war & hope nobody wins".
Presumptions abound-
Let's take all the Israeli's & give them Florida (not the panhandle, just the N/S part) That way the Arabs can have Palestine back.
OK, with me so far?-The US Congress passes a law. The President signs it. Presuming it would alter the Constitution somehow, the other 49 states ratify an amendment okaying the move. The residents of FL are free to move or to stay in FL as US citizens or to become duel citizens or to become Israeli's.
Ya know what? I'd expect the citizens of FL to move or stay. I would not expect nor would I condone their deciding to begin a civil war. Sometimes shit happens.
Jordan & Egypt & Saudi Arabia & Lebanon & Syria & (who as I missing) all gave up a small tract of land. The residents had an option to have their own country, right next to Israel. They didn't want it. So, fuck 'em. Which is exactly what the Arabs would say. They take the land & kill the residents (presumably Palestinians). The Arabs don't want a Palestine. The Jews don't want a Palestine. The UN doesn't want a Palestine. Fer chrissakes, the Palestinians don't want a Palestine.
Let's take all the Israeli's & give them Florida (not the panhandle, just the N/S part) That way the Arabs can have Palestine back.
OK, with me so far?-The US Congress passes a law. The President signs it. Presuming it would alter the Constitution somehow, the other 49 states ratify an amendment okaying the move. The residents of FL are free to move or to stay in FL as US citizens or to become duel citizens or to become Israeli's.
Ya know what? I'd expect the citizens of FL to move or stay. I would not expect nor would I condone their deciding to begin a civil war. Sometimes shit happens.
Jordan & Egypt & Saudi Arabia & Lebanon & Syria & (who as I missing) all gave up a small tract of land. The residents had an option to have their own country, right next to Israel. They didn't want it. So, fuck 'em. Which is exactly what the Arabs would say. They take the land & kill the residents (presumably Palestinians). The Arabs don't want a Palestine. The Jews don't want a Palestine. The UN doesn't want a Palestine. Fer chrissakes, the Palestinians don't want a Palestine.
AlladinSane
Well-Known Member
No, they said they didn't agree with the sharing conditions. I will have to repeat them till the end of days?Gonz said:
AlladinSane
Well-Known Member
So shit happens. Would you support the israelis or your fellow americans?Gonz said: