Even in the UK

Gato_Solo

Gato_Solo

Out-freaking-standing OTC member
People are refusing to accept responsibility for their crimes...

Parents of murdered teen blame death on 'Manhunt'

Updated: 7:48 p.m. ET July 29, 2004

LONDON - Britain’s biggest electronics chain, Dixons, pulled the graphically violent video game “Manhunt” from its shops on Thursday after parents of a teenage murder victim blamed the game for the killing of their son.
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The parents should share blame with the son... :crying4:

I've watched violent cartoons, played violent games, and such, all my life. I've never taken it into my head to kill anybody. I had this thing called a conscience, and had an emotion called guilt, and a little something called responsibility thrown in. Both my parents worked for at least half my childhood, and the worst trouble I ever got into was underaged drinking (my father took care of that one). What are we teaching our youth today if we blame everything but our lousy parenting, or our society in general...
 
Gato_Solo said:
People are refusing to accept responsibility for their crimes...



The parents should share blame with the son... :crying4:

I've watched violent cartoons, played violent games, and such, all my life. I've never taken it into my head to kill anybody. I had this thing called a conscience, and had an emotion called guilt, and a little something called responsibility thrown in. Both my parents worked for at least half my childhood, and the worst trouble I ever got into was underaged drinking (my father took care of that one). What are we teaching our youth today if we blame everything but our lousy parenting, or our society in general...
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Yes Gato I'm the same....

But the problem doesn't just lie with responsibility, or conscience or guilt its to do with low levels of intelligence and not being able to separate the real from the unreal. As a student primary teacher I saw this first hand... at first its cute that little Michael thinks that all his cartoon characters are real and that soap actors aren't actors at all... most "normal" children grow out of this... sadly I believe that Stephan the 17 year old murderer didn't!

The nature of parenting always freaks me too... you need a liscense to drive, be of a certain age to drink, get married without concent, vote etc etc etc but any old numptie can become the solecare giver of a child!!!!!!
 
ClaireBear said:
Yes Gato I'm the same....

But the problem doesn't just lie with responsibility, or conscience or guilt its to do with low levels of intelligence and not being able to separate the real from the unreal. As a student primary teacher I saw this first hand... at first its cute that little Michael thinks that all his cartoon characters are real and that soap actors aren't actors at all... most "normal" children grow out of this... sadly I believe that Stephan the 17 year old murderer didn't!

The nature of parenting always freaks me too... you need a liscense to drive, be of a certain age to drink, get married without concent, vote etc etc etc but any old numptie can become the solecare giver of a child!!!!!!
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I hate to say this, but all mentally stable children grow out of that...mostly before they turn 11 years old. I believe that Stephan knew better also, and is just looking for a reason to mitigate his sentence. Unfortunately, the court seems to agree with him, so now, everybody is got somebody/thing else to blame the ills of society on instead of doing what they should do...taking responsibility for their actions...
 
Gato_Solo said:
I hate to say this, but all mentally stable children grow out of that...mostly before they turn 11 years old.
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Yes, that was my point too... hense my normal being in inverted commas ("") But its not so much to do with mentally stable (a phrase I'd normally link with metal illness) but with learning difficulties and special educational need... thats the PC version... or as we like to say in the trade "The lights are on but there's no one home" intellectually... these children have difficulty conforming to the norms of society... disorders which can stop children making this can include autism, asperges syndrome, Attention deffecit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD).


I believe that Stephan knew better also, and is just looking for a reason to mitigate his sentence. Unfortunately, the court seems to agree with him, so now, everybody is got somebody/thing else to blame the ills of society on instead of doing what they should do...taking responsibility for their actions...
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There is no area for mitigation to reduce his sentence... there is no death penalty here so the kid will get life regardless of whether he's a fruit and nut case or not... it'll merely mean he'll be in a secure mental institution.

If this case highlights what is a totally unsuitable game to start with and stops its sale then to me... thats great. Whether or not it was the real motivation behind the kids behaviour or merely a solicitors ploy to claim incompetancy.
 
ClaireBear said:
Yes, that was my point too... hense my normal being in inverted commas ("") But its not so much to do with mentally stable (a phrase I'd normally link with metal illness) but with learning difficulties and special educational need... thats the PC version... or as we like to say in the trade "The lights are on but there's no one home" intellectually... these children have difficulty conforming to the norms of society... disorders which can stop children making this can include autism, asperges syndrome, Attention deffecit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD).




merely a solicitors ploy to claim incompetancy.
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I still have trouble believing that ADHD could cause somebody to commit murder.
 
Gato_Solo said:
I still have trouble believing that ADHD could cause somebody to commit murder.
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No.... thats not what I'm suggesting. ADHD may render some children unable to distinguish between real and unreal or conform to society's norms... there can be much less dramatic consequences, other than murder, that can result from this, but murder can not be ruled out in the extreme.

ADHD children lack the ability to control themselves and their actions... they kinda "do" before their brain is in gear... like spitting at the teacher, running around waving scissors.... stabbing someone repeatedly with a knife.

Then there are ESBD kids too... then you're really at the crooks of the problem there... that really HAS got a lot to do with bad parenting!
 
Warren Le Blanc, a fan of the game, admitted he beat the younger teen to death with a claw hammer and stabbed him repeatedly with a knife. He could face life in prison.

?I didn?t intend to kill him at first, but when I saw the blood I just let go and hit more times,? he told police.
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as you said, gato, clearly a case of bad parenting (again). you can't blame this on a video game. if i see blood, i don't snap, i don't keep on beating somebody over and over again, THEN stab him a few times more, just because i might have done that over the weekend, while playing Soldier of Fortune..or any other game.
first question that comes into mind is: where were the parents? the game wasn't allowed for people under 18. the guy was 17. where did he get the game? at age 17, your parents have the right to know what kind of stuff you buy, or what kind of stuff you do on the computer. it's part of raising your children.

clearly they failed doing so, and now they blame it on a videogame, which they failed to keep out of the hands of their underaged son.
only thing i can say is: i will try hard to do things differently with my (future) children.
 
Shadowfax said:
as you said, gato, clearly a case of bad parenting (again). you can't blame this on a video game. if i see blood, i don't snap, i don't keep on beating somebody over and over again, THEN stab him a few times more, just because i might have done that over the weekend, while playing Soldier of Fortune..or any other game.
first question that comes into mind is: where were the parents? the game wasn't allowed for people under 18. the guy was 17. where did he get the game? at age 17, your parents have the right to know what kind of stuff you buy, or what kind of stuff you do on the computer. it's part of raising your children.

clearly they failed doing so, and now they blame it on a videogame, which they failed to keep out of the hands of their underaged son.
only thing i can say is: i will try hard to do things differently with my (future) children.
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Yes... the parents have a role to play in making sure that a game of that nature isn't played by their underage son/daughter.

But to be honest... at 17 I think it will be pretty hard to go prying and monitoring his/her life.... also I think that unless as a parent you are aware that your son's a "fruit and nut" case then you wouldn't think twice at him playing a game like that... he's only a year off being able to drink and vote... he's almost an adult British legal standards!
 
ClaireBear said:
Yes... the parents have a role to play in making sure that a game of that nature isn't played by their underage son/daughter.

But to be honest... at 17 I think it will be pretty hard to go prying and monitoring his/her life.... also I think that unless as a parent you are aware that your son's a "fruit and nut" case then you wouldn't think twice at him playing a game like that... he's only a year off being able to drink and vote... he's almost an adult British legal standards!
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yes, you definately have a valid point there. of course, when i was 17, i didn't let my parents pry on my life too much as well. then again, i never killed anyone.

thing is, you can look at it from the other side as well: if you say, 'he's 17..and almost an adult by british legal standards', you consider him as "almost an adult", right?
well, if he's going to be seen as an adult, he should be responsible for his actions as well. fact that the parents are blaming this on a videogame, something UNREAL, is just too sad for words. nobody wants to take their own responsibility anymore: not the son, and definately not the parents. always trying to blame things on other people...that's sad.
 
Shadowfax said:
yes, you definately have a valid point there. of course, when i was 17, i didn't let my parents pry on my life too much as well. then again, i never killed anyone.

thing is, you can look at it from the other side as well: if you say, 'he's 17..and almost an adult by british legal standards', you consider him as "almost an adult", right?
well, if he's going to be seen as an adult, he should be responsible for his actions as well. fact that the parents are blaming this on a videogame, something UNREAL, is just too sad for words. nobody wants to take their own responsibility anymore: not the son, and definately not the parents. always trying to blame things on other people...that's sad.
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I think Stephan definitely takes responsibility... he's going to serve a life sentence... the video game's part to play in this only came to light when he was asked his reasons for or what influenced him commiting such a horrific act.
 
Stephan's the victim isn't he? Isn't Warren the perpetrator? Don't mean to be picky, but it confused me momentarily.

The issue isn't where were the parents with the 17 year-old, it's where were the parents when the 17 year old was 2? Or 5? Or 10? I guarantee you, this person's problems didn't magically crop up at 17. There had to have been signs earlier. Why weren't they recognized and dealt with?
 
HomeLAN said:
Stephan's the victim isn't he? Isn't Warren the perpetrator? Don't mean to be picky, but it confused me momentarily.
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Sorry I never read attachments/URL links properly... I dunno why... its weird like an aversion!

The issue isn't where were the parents with the 17 year-old, it's where were the parents when the 17 year old was 2? Or 5? Or 10? I guarantee you, this person's problems didn't magically crop up at 17. There had to have been signs earlier. Why weren't they recognized and dealt with?
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If it is true psycosis I think I may be right in thinking that traits generally won't show themselves until late teens early 20's anyway, or they can present after a physical trauma...

The kid could have been for all intents and purposes normal until that point.
 
Gato_Solo said:
People are refusing to accept responsibility for their crimes...



The parents should share blame with the son... :crying4:

I've watched violent cartoons, played violent games, and such, all my life. I've never taken it into my head to kill anybody. I had this thing called a conscience, and had an emotion called guilt, and a little something called responsibility thrown in. Both my parents worked for at least half my childhood, and the worst trouble I ever got into was underaged drinking (my father took care of that one). What are we teaching our youth today if we blame everything but our lousy parenting, or our society in general...
Click to expand...



maybe that is because you learned fantasy from reality and had parents there to teach you. to me this is a bunch of bullshit. blaming a game on death? WTF? what happend to responsibilty to teach their kids? I would lay blame on the kids and on the parents.
 
The kid had an organic problem to begin with. The site and smells of that kind murder bring up primordial insticts, especilly in younger people.

I will concede that games will help train a mind to point. This is beyond that point.

This kid should not have been playing this game if he showed any violent tendicies or anti-social behaviors towards other people.

Next it will be the History Channel, Nat'l Geographic, or one of the other stations that show crushed skulls, how a club was used to kill someone 500 years ago or the finer point of the cannibilism diet.
 
As much as some would like to believe that this 'child' had a problem, I don't think he did. As for him taking responsibility by going to jail, that is not 'taking' anything. That's having responsibility forced upon somebody. There is a difference between the two aspects. :shrug:
 
oh hell, I've just been playing Age of Empires II :(

*sigh...

oh well.....guess I better go and invade china or summit....

wish me luck! :mope:
 
Oz said:
oh hell, I've just been playing Age of Empires II :(

*sigh...

oh well.....guess I better go and invade china or summit....

wish me luck! :mope:
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Good luck... :D

BTW...I hope you take plenty of clean undies with you, because Chinese aren't kind to invaders. You could be there a good, long, while...:grinyes:
 
Gato_Solo said:
Good luck... :D

BTW...I hope you take plenty of clean undies with you, because Chinese aren't kind to invaders. You could be there a good, long, while...:grinyes:
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Well it only took 35mins on the computer to beat 'em.......I fully expect to be back in time for breakfast (it's where I'm gonna find 2 million mongolian warriors that's puzzling me) ;) :D
 
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