F*ck it! Let's pull out of the middle east.

Spain has a very short workday which sounds very relaxing. Sweden/Norway/Finland have interesting things going on. Iceland, Amsterdam, and Italy all have their charm.

Australia and New Zealand would be nice to check out.

I'd keep going but it's a big place.
 
That's true Flav, there are several countries in the world that the citizens of are happy in. How many of those are democratic and how many of those are ran by dictators?
 
PuterTutor said:
That's true Flav, there are several countries in the world that the citizens of are happy in. How many of those are democratic and how many of those are ran by dictators?
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I don't know. What's your point?
 
My point is that North Korea and Iraq are both ran by dictators, not a democratic government. I think that's the main point of Gonz's post, although he is obviously partial to the US, as most of us here are.
 
Ok then, I grant you that North Korea and Iraq would not be places I would consider living. I also think that people that live there probably would be better off with a different form of government.

Where do we go from here?
 
Gonz said:
flavio said:
I'm sure some people would take issue with that. I love where I live too, but so do people in other countries and for good reason.
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Most likely, true. Although, last time I checked, Spain asn't being overrun by people wishing to live there.
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european countries have a fair immigration problem of their own with political and economic migrants making their way here in reasonable numbers. many have the intention of heading toward the 'bigger' countries like the uk, germany and france but the immigration issue is one shared across the continent [including smaller countries like denmark, the netherlands and i am sure spain].

my only thought on the us removing itself from world affairs is that i would feel that should include all the bases, including the ones in the uk [and what looks like being part of your new star wars system based here in yorkshire] and other 'friendly' countries. and economic support, even to friends like israel, otherwise you still got fingers in pies as far as i'm concerned.
 
ehwha? i fail to see how the above post shows any animosity toward the us.

if you do not want to be part of an international community then that should include any interests abroad. otherwise it is taking the bits that suit and leaving the bits that don't to my mind.

speaking personally i hope the us doesn't follow an isolationist route.
 
When i posted this thread there was a spot of facetiousness running in my vains. It was a throwing up of the hands type of thing.

otherwise it is taking the bits that suit and leaving the bits that don't
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I don't buy that. Infact i think pulling out of Iraq and ignoring North Korea would be the exact opposite of that statement. Because it does suit us, and it suits the world because if we don't deal with them then eventually the rest of the world will have to. Why would you have us get rid of anything starwars related? It's a defensive mechanism. When you want someone/a nation to remove a defensive mechanism what reason could it possibly be for other than to see them unprotected? The animosity is reflected in the opinion and attitude.
 
i never said that you should rid yourself of the missile defence system, if you can extract that and animosity from what i posted then you are doing little more than adding words to my mouth, which was, just so you can go over it again and read the thing properly:

include all the bases, including the ones in the uk [and what looks like being part of your new star wars system based here in yorkshire]
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nowhere do i say no more missile defence system. i simply say that the part of your defence based in a foreign country would seem at odds with a us that is not taking part in foreign affairs. if you want to have one then fine but don't expect the rest of us to have your bases when you aren't being part of the international community.

its less animosity and more a 'well if they aren't going to play then we'll take our ball too', and if you want to know what brings out the animosity in me, its people who read what they want into what i say with absolutely no grounds, and generate my attutude from there.
 
So you have animosity towards me because of my interpretation of your statement? Atleast give me the benifit of the doubt. I'm talking about pulling out of areas where the world is in disagreement with US policy. Why would you want us to eliminate defense areas located within our allies boundries? Are not the US and UK great allies? I make every effort not spin and always attempt to understand what people are communicating to me. I have no reason whatsoever to want to disagree with you. But i do wish to understand your point of view. Otherwise i would not waste my breath. If you can't atleast believe that then the conversation is pointless.
 
i was taking the assertion that i have heard mooted here and elsewhere, and it should probably have been clarified on my part, that the us should not get involved with other coutnries problems and deal with itself first. in that regard i am talking about something more far reaching than simply pulling out of the middle east.

i have no wish for the us to step out of world affairs, as i said i think that the us should remain an integral and vital part of international efforts.

if i may be blunt i think that your attitude to those who disagree with you often appears to be nothing more than 'that's crap'or 'bullshit'. disregarding the other view and denegrating it without entering into the discussion. your recent comments toward justin about israel/palestine assumed he knew nothing and effectively killed the discussion at that point. further responses were almost arrogant in the disregarding and non-discursive nature.
perhaps if you had countered the argument with somehting more than 'bullshit' then people wouldn't walk away from the discussion as it gives the appearance that you have no interest in understanding their point of view.
 
I think you're blending me in with other people.. My comment to justin was a rare one. Although my stance on many subjects does have an aggressive appearence i think you would be hard pressed to find many 'that's crap or bullshut' type of comments within my posts. Although i really don't wish to drag other people into this, my comments to Justin were not completely based on that thread. They might have been on the rude side but i spoke the truth and i stand by my comments.
 
Gonz said:
OK, wait. can we have Star Wars up first?
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I thought that was scrapped after Russia and America made amends i think it was during Bush(the first one) and Gorbachev(sp?) in the early 90s or was it gone after Reagan was gone?? wont we have to start from zero if we do? if so :evillaugh2:
 
Scrapped? Not a chance, just put on the backburner. It's being tested quite regualrly. Although, there is something about firing at a missle when you know it's course in advance. :rolleyes:
 
It won't be until atleast mid feb i'm sure.
IF this even happens. It can still be avoided however unlikely it may seem. We'll see what surprises (if any) the Arab meeting next week with Saddam might have in store.
 
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