Federalist 41

Gonz

Gonz

molṑn labé
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We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
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Starting with Provide & Promote. The military is, by law & Constitution, deemed so needed as to warrant the wording PROVIDE. THat means it must be funded & supported.

On the other hand, general welfare, which has caused so much strife & disagreement, is to be PROMOTED. As in an ad on the highway that reads, Burma Shave. There's no law that says you have to buy Burma Shave.

Federalist #41

The Federalist Papers were explanations of the meanings & arguments for ratifying the Constitution, written by the men who actually wrote that document.

#41 has some timely wordings.

America united, with a handful of troops, or without a single soldier, exhibits a more forbidding posture to foreign ambition than America disunited, with a hundred thousand veterans ready for combat.
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Wow. They foresaw the movement from the left.

Some, who have not denied the necessity of the power of taxation, have grounded a very fierce attack against the Constitution, on the language in which it is defined. It has been urged and echoed, that the power "to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts, and excises, to pay the debts, and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States," amounts to an unlimited commission to exercise every power which may be alleged to be necessary for the common defense or general welfare. No stronger proof could be given of the distress under which these writers labor for objections, than their stooping to such a misconstruction.
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Again, they say that if it's not specifically enumerated, it's not within the federal jurisdiction. The Federal Gov't does not have the authority to oversee medical care to her citizens. The Federal Gov't does not have the authority to provide medical care to her citizens. The New Deal (better referred to as the Raw Deal) overstepped that authority. Virtually ever social program since, all the way to GWs prescription drug program, has overstepped that authority.

Hillary & Barack have both mentioned ONE HUNDRED BILLION DOLLAR+ programs. Those numbers can be easily doubled & possibly tripled to get a more acurate total, PER YEAR, of the cost of allowing the Federal Gov't to interfere with the best healthcare system in the world (as witnessed by the number of people who travel to the US for medical care as opposed to those who embark for care elsewhere).

Had no other enumeration or definition of the powers of the Congress been found in the Constitution, than the general expressions just cited, the authors of the objection might have had some color for it; though it would have been difficult to find a reason for so awkward a form of describing an authority to legislate in all possible cases. A power to destroy the freedom of the press, the trial by jury, or even to regulate the course of descents, or the forms of conveyances, must be very singularly expressed by the terms "to raise money for the general welfare."
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The Founding Fathers saw & quelled any misunderstanding of the term "promote the generasl welfare". Too bad our education system doesn't include these words & too bad our politicians prefer to use greed as a motivator. What's in it for me just isn't as noble as ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country.
 
Already answered that sweetcakes. Rebellion may be put down.

On the other hand, if you want gov't sponsord healthcare, stay true to OTC. ;)
 
Bleeds into other areas as well, snookums. (Gawd, this is gettin' sick...)

Before I am misunderstood, I want as little government interference into my day-to-day as possible. As far as the feds go, provide me a military, care for the national parks, negotiate foreign treaty (trade and otherwise), oversee disputes between States, defend our borders, set what few laws need to be set nationally, and interpret the Constitution. The rest can be handled by either the States or by the individuals. Gimme back my Social Security dollars and let me provide my own retirement. Keep your filthy hands off my healthcare...given your track record of management, you'll just fuck it up. We don't need you to determine if Raphael Palmeiro is on steroids, or to tell us whether a 12 year old can have an abortion, or to make the NFL take care of its retired veterans. Get busy doing what you're supposed to do and get out of the rest of it. Including duck walking people into a voluntary union at gunpoint.
 
I just want to know where all the money is going to come from. I'm sick of paying for everything with phantom cash.
 
unclehobart said:
I just want to know where all the money is going to come from. I'm sick of paying for everything with phantom cash.
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Yup. I agree that national defense must be funded (my problem, of course, is that a lot of military money is being spent on things that in no way defend the nation). It scares me that it's frequently funded with money that doesn't really exist. What happens to national defense when those bills come due.
 
coming from the China credit line, among other.
When they decide to call in the chips...well you all know what I've been predicting for some months now.
 
They can't call in the chips. A major default will cause a global depression that would make the one in 29 look like a cabbage fart.

Also, if they call that credit line and we don't pay, do you really expect them not to send us anything anymore? We are by far their biggest customer. They will get hit harder than we will.

Frankly, it all sucks and we need to tighten our collective Fed spending butts for about 20 years and do away with the national debt altogether.
 
Oh, I don't figure they'd call um All in at once, but if They see some kind
of opportunity fro some reason, they can put a major hurt on us ATM.

I totally agree about tightening up.
The longer we as a country wait, the tougher it's going to be, and it may
get pretty tough already.

We simply have to bring back the manufacturing jobs, and mainly the technology
end jobs.

Like Intel has been getting the chips made in Malaysia, and Seagate in Singapore for
....I guess as long as I can remember.
We need to do that stuff here.
 
It will never happen. The Asian rim countries heavily subsidize key industries so that they are guarranteed a stranglehold. US companies are taxed and there are virtually no subsidies at all... at least not to the loss-leader level that we have to compete against. Would you rather pay $300 for that killer vidcard or $500?

The US niche is naught more than being a producer of music, movies, and grain.
 
i've been pretty concerned about the china thing too, but i don't understand how all that would work if, say, they got grumpy, other than some inkling of an idea that they would also be hurting themselves if they tried to burn our asses.
 
We would have to play bonds off. Since they're Chinese, I suggest we pay in Yuan
 
Gonz said:
Already answered that sweetcakes. Rebellion may be put down.

On the other hand, if you want gov't sponsord healthcare, stay true to OTC. ;)
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We covered this before. Gov't sponsored healthcare is just as legit if not more so than govt provided fire or police services.

allowing the Federal Gov't to interfere with the best healthcare system in the world (as witnessed by the number of people who travel to the US for medical care as opposed to those who embark for care elsewhere).
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Witnessed where? I notice you provide no numbers. All the evidence in the other thread (which had sources) showed that we in fact don't have the best healthcare system and aren't even second.
 
“It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world,” George Washington wisely counseled in his Farewell Address to the nation.

John Quincy Adams said: “America goes not abroad in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own…. She well knows that by once enlisting under other banners than her own, were they even the banners of foreign independence, she would involve herself beyond the power of extrication in all the wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy and ambition, which assume the colors and usurp the standards of freedom.”

:toast:

They seem to have predicted the movement from the right.
 
spike said:
We covered this before. Gov't sponsored healthcare is just as legit if not more so than govt provided fire or police services.
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You didn't read what the writer of the Constitution said did you?
 
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