For the naysayers

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
Before you continue with your foolhardiness, read this

The evidence of Saddam's maniacal plans becomes clearer by the hour, but a few findings merit discussion now because the naysayers continue to bluster about the rationale behind America's decision to proceed.

1. Weapons-grade plutonium. At the Al Tuwaitha nuclear complex, which Mohammed El Baradei's International Atomic Energy Agency inspectors declared free of nuclear materials late last year, an embedded journalist for the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review reported on Thursday that Marine battalions had detected weapons-grade plutonium. Al Tuwaitha was an Iraqi government-controlled facility run by Saddam's Atomic Energy Commission. A maze of belowground hallways leading to labs and storage facilities underscored the lengths to which Saddam's scientists had gone in order to hide their clandestine activities. And not one or two buildings, but fourteen — count them, 14 — buildings had abnormally high radiation levels, according to the US 1st Marine Division's nuclear and intelligence experts unearthing the secrets. If it is confirmed that weapons-grade plutonium exists at Tuwaitha, those who gave Saddam either the reactor technology and chemicals to reprocess spent uranium or transferred weapons-grade plutonium directly to Iraq will have a lot to answer for.

2. Biological weapons. Fox News' embedded reporter, Rick Leventhal, downloaded incredible video of what may be the first of Saddam's bioweapons labs on wheels. He reported that in a U-Haul-sized truck disguised as a radar facility for mobile surface-to-air missiles, a false panel revealed electronic pulleys, winches, storage bins, and refrigerators which could easily be used to store biological-weapons stashes (refrigeration being the key identifier because you certainly don't need refrigerators to freeze the rocket launcher). Tests will determine definitively whether there are any biological residues or not. But when a truck is found at a construction site hidden amid other trucks and construction equipment, and then tries to high tail it out of camp before it gets found out and then shot out by alert U.S. Marines, it is a sure sign that someone powerful wanted to hide this truck, and maybe its sisters, at all cost.

3. Chemical warheads. The 1st Marine Division with the 101st Airborne reports the seizure of 20 medium-range rockets armed with sarin and mustard gas that were ready to fire — not stored away, not unassembled, but ready to fire. And the amounts of chemicals found in the warheads of the BM-21 missiles left no doubt about their intended use — to kill masses of Coalition troops. These were not trace amounts.

4. Al Qaeda links. In the north, Coalition troops found paperwork early in the campaign after bombing the Sargat camp that indisputably tied the terrorists of Ansar al-Islam, a terrorist outfit funded in part by Saddam's Mukhabarat intelligence directorate and in part by Iran's SAVAK intelligence services, to al Qaeda. Sargat was operated by Abu Musab al Zarqawi, a known close associate of Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan, and was residence to over 700 terrorists, about a fourth of whom trained in bin Laden's Afghani terror camps. Zarqawi and his henchmen are now believed to be hiding in Ansar camps just on the Iranian side of the border.

5. Terror toxins. The paper trail may only be the tip of the iceberg. Mobile-lab tests conducted on boots and running shoes found in the bombed Sargat camp showed meaningful traces of Ricin and botulinum toxins. Similar trace amounts of chemical agents allegedly found in soil samples were used to justify the Clinton administration's August 1998 decision to launch cruise missile attacks on Sudan's al-Shifa pharmaceutical plant. Traces of Ricin, it might be recalled, were found in terrorist hideouts in London and Paris, and then later in Barcelona and Milan, where Algerian terrorists tied to al Qaeda and answering to Zarqawi were readying retaliation strikes against Europe's civilian populations. Ingesting miniscule amounts of Ricin, which induces respiratory failure, can kill within 72 hours. There is no known cure.

6. Salman Pak. Media outlets and U.S. officials who once had responsibility for America's national security have long ridiculed claims that Saddam had any ties to the hijackers of September 11, or that his secular identity could ever commingle with radical Islamists like bin Laden. The paperwork and presence of recipe books to mix Ricin and other toxic nerve agents, as well as traces of the agents themselves, at the Sargat camp in northern Iraq lay to rest the Saddam-bin Laden commingling issue. So did the capture of Sudanese, Egyptian, Yemeni, Syrian, and other Arabs with ties to al Qaeda fighting along Saddam's Fedayeen kamikaze forces. But the hijackers were another matter — until this weekend, when Coalition forces destroyed the Salman Pak terror camp on Sunday morning. They found an airplane shell at the Salman Pak terror camps, just like former CIA Director James Woolsey and ex-Clinton aide Laurie Mylroie had postulated repeatedly since the mid-1990s there was. Interviews conducted by PBS's Frontline in June 2002 of Sabah Khodada, a captain in the Iraqi army, indicate that he personally witnessed men of Arab descent, mainly Yemeni, with long beards training in the hull of the 707 aircraft, and on trains and buses in the same fields specifically for hijacking missions using knives and other common utensils.

What else is there? What else matters? The doubters no longer have a shred of evidence to support their case against forcefully removing Saddam Hussein from power.

NRO
 

Ardsgaine

New Member
Gonz said:
(refrigeration being the key identifier because you certainly don't need refrigerators to freeze the rocket launcher).

Those are for their beer stash... they have to hide it from the clerics. :p
 

Leslie

Communistrator
Staff member
I know I'll be mocked and reviled and flamed for this, but I've gotta say it.

While I'm glad Saddam is out of there, because of the people and their suffering over the past few years *and yet knowing that this was not an altruistic act and that there are people in umpteen other countries who need the same salvation but who won't get it*, I still feel that the war was the wrong way to go. I find it sad that it all came to that. But now that it's "over", the result is the result and we must carry on, and pray for something good to come out of it. My sincere hope is that the US gov't actually might have learned something from this, and will in future stop their FOOLHARDY way of playing the world like paper dolls so that situations like this don't recur. But alas, with the way that they're already conducting themselves in rebuilding plans, I fear that won't happen.
 

unclehobart

New Member
Its more of a 'damed if you do, damned if you don't' situation. The primary job of a state is to insure the existence of that state. That requires a hideous amount of sneakiness and skullduggery and screwing over the other guy before he has a chance to screw you over. The US is percieved as the defacto king of the hill and is the most logical target for everyone with a gripe. If the US acts, it is either seen as too much or too little. If the US doesn't act, it is all but rote permission for those that infiltrate and destroy the structure from within. Its a straight up Machiavellian shell game wherein we are trying to play both the fear and love angles at the same time... and failing.
 

Leslie

Communistrator
Staff member
Yes, in the current state, but if y'all didn't fuck around with the rest of us at your whim, maybe this whole situation wouldn't have been there...someday maybe someone in power will see that.
 

Leslie

Communistrator
Staff member
sorry, I shouldn't have expressed that as YOU and Y'ALL

it's the gov't and what they do that is the issue.
 

unclehobart

New Member
Unfortunately its quite the tangled knot to try and walk away from tinkering with everything. Such cloak and dagger has been the cornerstone of governments since the Egyptians, Greeks, and Chinese earliest days. It would be lovely if all governments lived and functioned in an altruistic manner ... but such a thing run contrary to 1000s of years of ingrained human behavior.
 

cubcake1

New Member
Certainly everyone has a right to an opinion.

My opinion is, if you don’t like it here then go be a human shield, Syria is probably next so catch a cheap airline ticket while you still can.

Most of the USA naysayers don’t have enough life experience to adequately choose the best 2 ply toilet paper.

USA rocks!
Bush rocks! (With a little help from some of the finest people to have ever graced the planet)

Damn right our way or the highway!

:headbang:
 

outside looking in

<b>Registered Member</b>
I enjoyed the Southpark viewpoint on this situation. Not that I really agreed with it, but it was entertaining and showed how ridiculous some of this bickering really is.
 

fury

Administrator
Staff member
Leslie, I hope I'm wrong, but I interpreted that as you're talking about us like we were the cause of Saddam being a bad guy... :confuse3:
 

Gonz

molṑn labé
Staff member
Leslie said:
Yes, in the current state, but if y'all didn't fuck around with the rest of us at your whim, maybe this whole situation wouldn't have been there

If we hadn't fucked around with saddam we wouldn't be in this mess. It, most likely, would've been much Iran that controlled much of the Arab world. Canada certainly enjoys the fruits of "our" labor.

Unc covered the why's quite well.
 

chcr

Too cute for words
cubcake1 said:
My opinion is, if you don’t like it here then go be a human shield, Syria is probably next so catch a cheap airline ticket while you still can.
Cubcake, Leslie isn't from here.
 

PostCode

Major contributor!
It was France that built them the nuclear power plant in which that weapons grade plutonium came from.
 

freako104

Well-Known Member
outside looking in said:
I enjoyed the Southpark viewpoint on this situation. Not that I really agreed with it, but it was entertaining and showed how ridiculous some of this bickering really is.

it is and even though it was made to be funny sp made a good point in that show.




and i agree with les that there are other countries who need our help as well and arent getting it. but it isnt all altruistic.(i doubt theres much altruism involved except for the getting sadam out of power)
 
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