Global Warming, is it simply CO2 at fault?
- Thread starter ol' man
- Start date
sbcanada
New Member
Every text book I've read and educational TV program I've watched about global warming all seem to point the finger mainly at CO2... I guess it's been proven that the stuff traps heat in the atmosphere, and we sure know that we are producing a lot of CO2... damn cars mostly to blame. Can't wait till them hydrogen powered cars come out and are massed produced so they are actually affordable.
That should be a priority for governments in the industrialized world, get rid of gasoline vehicles and move on to hydrogen. CO2 causes global warming, gasoline burning cars major producer of CO2, get rid of those cars, get rid of a lot of CO2 and reduce global warming.
Anyone know of some good articles about hydrogen power?
That should be a priority for governments in the industrialized world, get rid of gasoline vehicles and move on to hydrogen. CO2 causes global warming, gasoline burning cars major producer of CO2, get rid of those cars, get rid of a lot of CO2 and reduce global warming.
Anyone know of some good articles about hydrogen power?
chcr
Too cute for words
I hear methane affects it too. The bovine population increase contributes to this. There are really too many factors to make an accurate judgement, but I think it's largely solar activity. Are you familiar with how global warming causes an ice age? My own personal take on the whole matter is that the earth on average has been cooling since it was formed. Short term variations aside, it will continue to do so.
I should think that since plant life scrubs CO2, the first priority would be to stop deforestation. Never happen though.
I should think that since plant life scrubs CO2, the first priority would be to stop deforestation. Never happen though.
chcr
Too cute for words
FACT:
If one burned all of the hydrocarbons and coal reserves at once that would equal the same amount of energy the earth recieves from the sun in just ten days. The sun never stops!
FACT:
The ocean stores much more carbon in the form of methane and dissolved CO2 than all of the worlds oil reserves and by far the atmosphere.
FACT:
From around 1200 to 1850 the world was in a stage known as the little ice age. It consisted of three episodes of low solar activity with the most recent the called the maunder minimum. These cooling periods allowed the oceans to trap more CO2 and CH4 from the environment in form of clathrate hydrates lining ocean floors. Anyone know what the gas in pop is? CO2! The ocean below say 1 km is around 0~7.5 deg. C which is quite sufficient to hold vast amounts of CO2. Warm this region up and you will have CO2 release. El nino events cause great upwellings of CO2 supersaturated water from the pacific. Naturally it would "burp" CO2 up.
What does anyone suppose would happen if the sun suddenly quite shining?
It is a fact that oneday the sun will explode and form a red giant in which the earth will actually be in the exterior of it and the surface of the earth will reach 2000~5000 deg. C.
Plants can scrub CO2 from the air but many are realizing that the ocean makes more oxygen than any of the terrestrial plants ever would.
The ocean also scrubs a very large amount of CO2 from the air and it is in a constant equilibrium. The two poles will scrub the most amount of it from the air because of their colder temperatures.
Read this. I don;t agree with everything he says but look at who started the biggest push for it.
http://www.vision.net.au/~daly/history.htm
If one burned all of the hydrocarbons and coal reserves at once that would equal the same amount of energy the earth recieves from the sun in just ten days. The sun never stops!
FACT:
The ocean stores much more carbon in the form of methane and dissolved CO2 than all of the worlds oil reserves and by far the atmosphere.
FACT:
From around 1200 to 1850 the world was in a stage known as the little ice age. It consisted of three episodes of low solar activity with the most recent the called the maunder minimum. These cooling periods allowed the oceans to trap more CO2 and CH4 from the environment in form of clathrate hydrates lining ocean floors. Anyone know what the gas in pop is? CO2! The ocean below say 1 km is around 0~7.5 deg. C which is quite sufficient to hold vast amounts of CO2. Warm this region up and you will have CO2 release. El nino events cause great upwellings of CO2 supersaturated water from the pacific. Naturally it would "burp" CO2 up.
What does anyone suppose would happen if the sun suddenly quite shining?
It is a fact that oneday the sun will explode and form a red giant in which the earth will actually be in the exterior of it and the surface of the earth will reach 2000~5000 deg. C.
Plants can scrub CO2 from the air but many are realizing that the ocean makes more oxygen than any of the terrestrial plants ever would.
The ocean also scrubs a very large amount of CO2 from the air and it is in a constant equilibrium. The two poles will scrub the most amount of it from the air because of their colder temperatures.
Read this. I don;t agree with everything he says but look at who started the biggest push for it.
http://www.vision.net.au/~daly/history.htm
Aunty Em
Well-Known Member
ol' man said:
If you stopped pontificating there'd be a lot less of it...
The "greenhouse" effect is a natural phenomenon - if it didn't exist this planet would have been too cold for life to exist - you can find that fact in any good ecology book... I'm surprised you didn't mention that since it's the arguement most people use to poo-poo the idea of global warming...
In addition, you give me "facts" with no supporting scientific evidence, plus you present me with an article expressing one man's opinion, also with no supporting evidence or references... (no scientific conclusion can be reached on such biased and limited resources).
Marks: D- ... not much of a scientist... must try harder...
Re: Re: Global Warming, is it simply CO2 at fault?
It was the first one that popped up. You want more? Search yourself. The first country to push it was Margret Thatcher. Why?
Nukes and other agenda's. I don't think he has to be scientist to understand politics.
Anyway some people argue that the earth is warming because of CO2 and others argue that the earth is warming cause of increase solar activity over the last 150 years from a period of no sunspot activity. Increased warming would cause the oceans to give up alot of CO2 stored in it and it would happen very fast.
The usual data to show how much the CO2 levels have risen over the past 400,000 years uses vostak measurements. I am in quartenary biology right now which deals completely with climate change and it shows many different scenerios.
This is what affect temperature has on CO2 levels in ocean water with increasing/decreasing temperature.
Notice when the temp goes up the CO2 levels go down in the sea. Where do you think the CO2 goes when the temps go up?
Here is my interpretation of what is happening in terms of CO2 levels.
http://www.bbsr.edu/cintoo/bats/bats.html
Temp of ocean is yellow line pink line is ocean CO2 levels. As you can see over the long run CO2 levels are increasing in the ocean as ocean temps decrease.
If you look on any bi annual graph of CO2 levels in any part of the world you will see that in winter the levels of CO2 go down in the atmosphere only to rise again in the summer.
I think the major rise in CO2 levels is from increased temps of the ocean which is allowing it to release more CO2. My quartenary bio teacher has said that oceans are still warming from the last major ice age that ended 11,000 years ago. One must under stand the mass of the oceans. Lately the incidence of sunspots has increased dramatically and the cycles have been getting closer together which gives the oceans less time to cool down. It makes sence that the oceans are going to release more CO2 and not have the ability to absorb as much in the short run. In the long run though it will reach equilibrium eventually and then global CO2 levels will start a slow decent.
This reasoning says that CO2 levels are controlled more by the suns activity with respect to the natural ocean buffer.
Any glass of distilled water with a pH of 7 left open to the atmosphere will in the matter of probably only a day or two have a pH of around 6 cause of the influx of CO2 into the water by this equation.
CO2(g) + H2O <---> [H2CO3](aq)<---->H+(aq) + HCO3-(aq)
Do you under stand what I am saying in this regard? Putting ions such as Ca2+ and Mg2+ in it will only allow it to absorb more CO2 from the atmosphere. This is the reason why the deep ocean holds so much of this gas in ionic form.
Global Warming IMHO is a political tool used by Nuclear proliferators in the early 80's to gain support for reactors and in the late 80's early 90's to lower the GDP of Industrialized countries and increase it for other countries. Mainly since the US has by far the biggest GDP naturally they want to go after the US's cash and this is exactely what the kyoto treaty had planned. It was a undermining attempt at globalization IMHO. It would ahve done nothing to reduce CO2 emissions. In fact it gave developing nations the right to produce more CO2 and the more developed ones had to produce less otherwise they had to pay the less developed nations cash for the excess in CO2 produced.
Like I said naturally since the US has a GDP of 9.9 trillion and China coming in second with 4.4 trillion the world has went after the US to start forking out cash.
The plan in the end is to reduce the standard of living for the US and increase it for other countries. Kinda like a little global socialism. Problem with that is there are countries that want to attack the US and take it over. I have no doubts they would kill every last one of us if they could. Decreasing the cash ability of the US would allow other waring countries to build up their arsenal and eventually take us over which I hope the US gov is seeing and I am sure they do. This is the reason why much of the rest of the world is against the US. It boils down to jealousy for our wealth. The world has alot of globalist/socialists and the numbers grow every day. I feel until we all can get along then there is no room for globalization.
Aunty Em said:
It was the first one that popped up. You want more? Search yourself. The first country to push it was Margret Thatcher. Why?
Nukes and other agenda's. I don't think he has to be scientist to understand politics.
Anyway some people argue that the earth is warming because of CO2 and others argue that the earth is warming cause of increase solar activity over the last 150 years from a period of no sunspot activity. Increased warming would cause the oceans to give up alot of CO2 stored in it and it would happen very fast.
The usual data to show how much the CO2 levels have risen over the past 400,000 years uses vostak measurements. I am in quartenary biology right now which deals completely with climate change and it shows many different scenerios.
This is what affect temperature has on CO2 levels in ocean water with increasing/decreasing temperature.
Notice when the temp goes up the CO2 levels go down in the sea. Where do you think the CO2 goes when the temps go up?
Here is my interpretation of what is happening in terms of CO2 levels.
http://www.bbsr.edu/cintoo/bats/bats.html
Temp of ocean is yellow line pink line is ocean CO2 levels. As you can see over the long run CO2 levels are increasing in the ocean as ocean temps decrease.
If you look on any bi annual graph of CO2 levels in any part of the world you will see that in winter the levels of CO2 go down in the atmosphere only to rise again in the summer.
I think the major rise in CO2 levels is from increased temps of the ocean which is allowing it to release more CO2. My quartenary bio teacher has said that oceans are still warming from the last major ice age that ended 11,000 years ago. One must under stand the mass of the oceans. Lately the incidence of sunspots has increased dramatically and the cycles have been getting closer together which gives the oceans less time to cool down. It makes sence that the oceans are going to release more CO2 and not have the ability to absorb as much in the short run. In the long run though it will reach equilibrium eventually and then global CO2 levels will start a slow decent.
This reasoning says that CO2 levels are controlled more by the suns activity with respect to the natural ocean buffer.
Any glass of distilled water with a pH of 7 left open to the atmosphere will in the matter of probably only a day or two have a pH of around 6 cause of the influx of CO2 into the water by this equation.
CO2(g) + H2O <---> [H2CO3](aq)<---->H+(aq) + HCO3-(aq)
Do you under stand what I am saying in this regard? Putting ions such as Ca2+ and Mg2+ in it will only allow it to absorb more CO2 from the atmosphere. This is the reason why the deep ocean holds so much of this gas in ionic form.
Global Warming IMHO is a political tool used by Nuclear proliferators in the early 80's to gain support for reactors and in the late 80's early 90's to lower the GDP of Industrialized countries and increase it for other countries. Mainly since the US has by far the biggest GDP naturally they want to go after the US's cash and this is exactely what the kyoto treaty had planned. It was a undermining attempt at globalization IMHO. It would ahve done nothing to reduce CO2 emissions. In fact it gave developing nations the right to produce more CO2 and the more developed ones had to produce less otherwise they had to pay the less developed nations cash for the excess in CO2 produced.
Like I said naturally since the US has a GDP of 9.9 trillion and China coming in second with 4.4 trillion the world has went after the US to start forking out cash.
The plan in the end is to reduce the standard of living for the US and increase it for other countries. Kinda like a little global socialism. Problem with that is there are countries that want to attack the US and take it over. I have no doubts they would kill every last one of us if they could. Decreasing the cash ability of the US would allow other waring countries to build up their arsenal and eventually take us over which I hope the US gov is seeing and I am sure they do. This is the reason why much of the rest of the world is against the US. It boils down to jealousy for our wealth. The world has alot of globalist/socialists and the numbers grow every day. I feel until we all can get along then there is no room for globalization.
Aunty Em said:Such paranoia!
I suggest you read this to begin with:
Climate Change
William J Burrows
Cambridge University Press
...and get a more balanced view.
O yeah we got planes flying into buildings here. I think the paranoia is called for. I have been hearing the ballanced debates etc...... for some time. It always leads back to the same thing though. The more I learn about it in school the whole global warming BS makes less sence.
umm, u seem very misled my friend check out some of the real science involved before making such widespread conclusions. most of the infomation you have given seems very shaky to seem the least. gloabl warming is a funtion of many variables in which factors such as sunspot activity and co2 are only really part of a much bigger picture etc etc.......the issue is not 'whether global warming exists, we know it exisits, it is universally scientifically accepted that it exisits, else the landscape and probably life
itself would'nt have evolved into what it is today! the point is this,
is
global warming occuring at accelerated
rates than in previous periods of global warming and cooling, and if so, why? and is that a function of anthropogenic enhancement? to tell the truth it does'nt really makes any difference as geologically were all fucked anyhow!
check out some of the real science involved before making such widespread conclusions. most of the infomation you have given seems very shaky to seem the least. gloabl warming is a funtion of many variables in which factors such as sunspot activity and co2 are only really part of a much bigger picture etc etc.......the issue is not 'whether global warming exists, we know it exisits, it is universally scientifically accepted that it exisits, else the landscape and probably lifeitself would'nt have evolved into what it is today! the point is this,
is
global warming occuring at accelerated
rates than in previous periods of global warming and cooling, and if so, why? and is that a function of anthropogenic enhancement? to tell the truth it does'nt really makes any difference as geologically were all fucked anyhow!
Aunty Em
Well-Known Member
Orbital said:umm, u seem very misled my friend
itself would'nt have evolved into what it is today! the point is this,
is
global warming occuring at accelerated
rates than in previous periods of global warming and cooling, and if so, why? and is that a function of anthropogenic enhancement? to tell the truth it does'nt really makes any difference as geologically were all fucked anyhow!
Yo Orb, I couldn't have put it better myself.
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