Gonzales Is Challenged on Wiretaps

Oh...
Yeah I enjoy me freedoms all the time.
We still gotta have security though.
The way I see it, it's a fine balancing act. Have as much freedom as possible,
but have security too.
If we were Totally free, it'd be chaos, because many people don't have
enough self control, or just need some kind of guidance.
If everybody were the same, it'd be easier.
Now when they want to make it so you can't do things in your own home, like
smoke tobacco, or have a certain kind of sex.... I have a real issue with it.
 
If your own government can listen to your phonecalls without a warrant then you don't have much freedom. Ever heard of this?.......

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
 
Ever since the Civil War, the President has always had at his discretion 'The War and Emergency Powers Act'. It makes it capable for him to do exactly what he is doing. Therefore he is not acting illegally. All Presidents since the depression have used this discretionary power to wield undue influence against the normal grain of due process. Yes, I do beleive it is anti-freedom... but yes, I also beleive it to be legal. It is a corruption of the original intent of the power... but still within the confines of the power. Congress needs to clean up the loopholes and restrict the power like they did in Vietnam wherein the Presidential discretion for undeclared wars was restricted. It is possible to do it... but they just wont do it.
 
flavio said:
If your own government can listen to your phonecalls without a warrant then you don't have much freedom. Ever heard of this?.......
You know, the part about this that surprises me is that anyone at all is surprised. You don't think they've been doing it since the fifties? This administration is a bit more arrogant and careless than some, but I seriously doubt their doing anything new, they just got caught.
 
chcr said:
You know, the part about this that surprises me is that anyone at all is surprised. You don't think they've been doing it since the fifties? This administration is a bit more arrogant and careless than some, but I seriously doubt their doing anything new, they just got caught.
I said as much in post 5... but it got blown right over.
 
unclehobart said:
I said as much in post 5... but it got blown right over.
Surely you don't really expect me to read back and see what other people have posted? :lloyd: Great minds do think alike though, don't they?
 
catocom said:
nope...yep....I Expect it.
I'm a very paranoid person. I've always "expected" it.
I just don't talk about stuff on the phone, that I don't feel comfortable
about just "anyone" else hearing. :swing:
:confbang: :D
 
How much longer shall we go on patting one another on the back for our unspeakable wisdom, intellect and insight. :rofl:
 
unclehobart said:
Ever since the Civil War, the President has always had at his discretion 'The War and Emergency Powers Act'. It makes it capable for him to do exactly what he is doing. Therefore he is not acting illegally. All Presidents since the depression have used this discretionary power to wield undue influence against the normal grain of due process. Yes, I do beleive it is anti-freedom... but yes, I also beleive it to be legal. It is a corruption of the original intent of the power... but still within the confines of the power. Congress needs to clean up the loopholes and restrict the power like they did in Vietnam wherein the Presidential discretion for undeclared wars was restricted. It is possible to do it... but they just wont do it.
Things were cleared up with several bills passed by congress. From what I can see this makes it pretty clear....

The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (FISA) was passed by Congress in an attempt to define the power of the Executive branch regarding foreign intelligence surveillance. FISA applies to all electronic surveillance that intercepts communication sent by, or intended to be received by, United States citizens or organizations while they are within this country. FISA also authorizes the interception of the communications of “foreign powers and agents of foreign powers for foreign intelligence purposes.”#sdfootnote1sym Although electronic surveillance conducted under the authority of FISA must conform to certain regulations, the requirements for obtaining a court order and for reporting to the AO are much less restrictive than those outlined by Title III. Court orders for a FISA wiretap are granted by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, “which is made up of seven District Court judges specially appointed by the Chief Justice of the United States.”#sdfootnote2sym These judges serve seven-year terms on the court.#sdfootnote3sym The application is made based on “a probable cause finding that the target is a foreign power or an agent of a foreign power.”#sdfootnote4sym “The order must be applied for by a federal officer, and approved by the attorney general, who is required to inform the House and Senate Committees on Intelligence of all FISA wiretap activity twice a year.”#sdfootnote5sym




Much like Title III, FISA requires that reports of all wiretaps be made to the AO every year. However, the information disclosed about FISA taps is significantly limited. The Attorney General is required only to supply the number of applications and the number of orders granted per year. All other information about FISA taps is classified. In addition, FISA provides for two situations in which no court order is needed to intercept communications.

The first is when the communications are exclusively between or among foreign powers or involve technical intelligence other than spoken communications from a location under the open and exclusive control of a foreign power; there is no substantial risk that the surveillance will acquire the communications to or from a U.S. person; and proposed minimization procedures meet the requirements set forth by the law. Under those conditions, authorization can be granted by the President through the Attorney General for a period up to one year. The second is following a declaration of war by Congress. Then the President, through the Attorney General, can authorize electronic surveillance for foreign intelligence purposes without a court order for up to 15 days.
#sdfootnote6sym
 
flavio said:
Things were cleared up with several bills passed by congress. From what I can see this makes it pretty clear....
What I find hard to credit is that you're gullible enough to believe that they ever stopped. You probably believe that there aren't people in America who are above the law too, huh? :shrug:
 
chcr said:
What I find hard to credit is that you're gullible enough to believe that they ever stopped. You probably believe that there aren't people in America who are above the law too, huh? :shrug:
shit there's people in there, that we don't even know are in there....
*puts on tin foil hat*
 
catocom said:
shit there's people in there, that we don't even know are in there....
*puts on tin foil hat*
Being a conspiracy theory does not make it inevitably untrue. :swing:
 
I thought the new tech might have circumvented the hat trick, but
then I found out that they can't even x-ray the ground in Iraq to find IEDs.
So the hat stays. :D

Oh the other part there really wasn't a j/k. ;)
 
while I'm OT... :D
can someone tell me why we have to spend millions on a machine to get these
IEDs out.
Why cant we just through a grenade on um, or something less expensive than that new vehicle thing?
 
catocom said:
while I'm OT... :D
can someone tell me why we have to spend millions on a machine to get these
IEDs out.
Why cant we just through a grenade on um, or something less expensive than that new vehicle thing?

or bomb sniffing dogs?
 
ekahs retsam said:
or bomb sniffing dogs?
oh no, we'd have greenpeace all over our ass. :lol2:
besides, it takes a lond time. and money too, to train those dogs right.
I don't know if we could split um out of the doggy schools fast enough. :devious:
 
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