Hamas claims majority in new Palestinian elections
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flavio
Banned
It's also called a violation of the UN charter and Geneva Convention.Gonz said:
You missed something above....
"In June 1967, we again had a choice. The Egyptian Army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him."
It seems you have no problem with Israeli's invading other countries and taking their land, massacre of civilians, creating vast numbers of refugees, torture, or violating international law. If the other countries retaliate that's when there's a problem?
paul_valaru
100% Pure Canadian Beef
yeah, they just decided to invade, I mean there where no signs that maybe they shoudl do something
paul_valaru
100% Pure Canadian Beef
You mean when jews immagrated to a jewish state as suggested in the balfour declaration, in 1917.
where they moved into unoccupied unowned land (or owned by the british) or land PURCHASED from arabs.
creating a non-theocratical state, where everyone has rights?
and all this torture massacred civilians....lies
Inkara1
Well-Known Member
If you bring up something the Jews did in 1982, then it's a given that you must think what they did in 1982 is fair game. Seems simple enough.flavio said:
I'm too lazy to search and see if you said Saddam was no threat, but if you yourself didn't say those exact words, many others who think like you have said so. But he gassed the Kurds in 1988. Apparently the obvious conclusion is that past performance is not an indicator of future results.
flavio
Banned
Hey good to see you make some posts with some substance...seriously.paul_valaru said:
An important thing to notice is that nowhere in your quote are Palestinians mentioned.
But about the incident...
The Egyptian Army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him.' "Noam Chomsky, "The Fateful Triangle."
"I do not think Nasser wanted war. The two divisions he sent to The Sinai would not have been sufficient to launch an offensive war. He knew it and we knew it." Yitzhak Rabin, Israel's Chief of Staff in 1967, in Le Monde, 2/28/68
"Moshe Dayan, the celebrated commander who, as Defense Minister in 1967, gave the order to conquer the Golan...[said] many of the firefights with the Syrians were deliberately provoked by Israel, and the kibbutz residents who pressed the Government to take the Golan Heights did so less for security than for the farmland...[Dayan stated] 'They didn't even try to hide their greed for the land...
full quotes...
There was no jewish state until 1948. There was only a small minority of Jews. The migration started around 1880.paul_valero said:
1870 Palestinians: 367,224 (98%) Jews: 7,000 (2%)
1912 Palestinians: 525,000 (93%) Jews: 40,000 (6%)
1925 Palestinians: 598,000 (83%) Jews: 120,000 (17%)
1946 Palestinians: 1,237,000 (65%) Jews: 608,000 (35%)
The Balfour Declaration is responsible for creating a lot of conflict....
"The Balfour Declaration, made in November 1917 by the British Government...was made a) by a European power, b) about a non-European territory, c) in flat disregard of both the presence and wishes of the native majority resident in that territory...[As Balfour himself wrote in 1919], 'The contradiction between the letter of the Covenant (the Anglo French Declaration of 1918 promising the Arabs of the former Ottoman colonies that as a reward for supporting the Allies they could have their independence) is even more flagrant in the case of the independent nation of Palestine than in that of the independent nation of Syria. For in Palestine we do not propose even to go through the form of consulting the wishes of the present inhabitants of the country...The four powers are committed to Zionism and Zionism, be it right or wrong, good or bad, is rooted in age-long tradition, in present needs, in future hopes, of far profounder import than the desire and prejudices of the 700,000 Arabs who now inhabit that ancient land,'" Edward Said, "The Question of Palestine."
[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]This was followed by a forced evacuation characterized by summary executions and looting and involving upwards of 70,000 Palestinian civilians - almost 10% of the total exodus of 1947- 49. Similar scenarios were enacted, as Morris shows, in central Galilee, Upper Galilee and the northern Negev, as well as in the post-war expulsion of the Palestinians of Al Majdal (Ashkelon). Most of these operations (with the exception of the latter) were marked by atrocities - a fact which led Aharon Zisling, the minister of agriculture, to tell the Israeli cabinet on 17 November 1948: "I couldn't sleep all night. I felt that things that were going on were hurting my soul, the soul of my family and all of us here (...) Now Jews too have behaved like Nazis and my entire being has been shaken (10)."[/font][font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]The Israeli government of the time pursued a policy of non- compromise, in order to prevent the return of the refugees "at any price" (as Ben Gurion himself put it), despite the fact that the UN General Assembly had been calling for this since 11 December 1948. Their villages were either destroyed or occupied by Jewish immigrants, and their lands were shared out between the surrounding kibbutzim. The law on "abandoned properties" - which was designed to make possible the seizure of any land belonging to persons who were "absent" - "legalized" this project of general confiscation as of December 1948. Almost 400 Arab villages were thus either wiped off the map or Judaised, as were most of the Arab quarters in mixed towns. According to a report drawn up in 1952, Israel had thus succeeded in expropriating 73,000 rooms in abandoned houses, 7,800 shops, workshops and warehouses, 5 million Palestinian pounds in bank accounts, and - most important of all - 300,000 hectares of land (11). [/font]
Source....
"Meanwhile, successive governments have regarded the Arab community as a hostile element in the context of the ongoing violence between Israel and the Occupied Territories. Israel has been in an officially declared state of emergency from 1948 to date, with the state's Arab citizens subjected to military rule from 1948 until 1966. Various pieces of emergency legislation authorise the state to suspend the Arab citizens' civil rights. Especially after the events of October 2000, when 13 Arab citizens of Israel were killed by the Israeli security forces, the situation of the Arab minority has worsened."
Source...
I keep putting up evidence. Do you have something that contradicts it?
paul_valaru
100% Pure Canadian Beef
Lots, I even think I know where your sources are coming from. as i was googling around last night. And it is very biased (well so are some of the ones I looked for my side, some TOO biased even for me).
Palestine is a geographical region, not a country (well it is starting to be one now, with the peace prosess).
the arabs that sold their lands to jewish settlers...well one reason they are so angry (and thier great grandchildren now) is that they where turned away, or put into refugee camps by thier OWN people, not the jewish settlers, but they blamed the jews cause the deal didn't turn out for them like they thought.
now early Israel, before it was Israel, there where 2 groups, one became the goverment the other was so militant, that there is no choice to call them terrorists, they bombed hotels, and killed etc. But to equate what they dis to Israel (ie the goverment) is like equating McVeigh to the american Gov or al-queda to the entire muslim world (ok, some people do that last one).
Palestine, the area that became Israel was first part of the ottoman empire, when said empire was disolved England got what is now Israel and Jordan (then called Transjordan) and France got Syria. Part of the agreements back then is that they would take these lands and run them while preparing them for self rule, the land of Israel was always slated since then to be a Jewish homeland, so while it was not officially done til 48 the plans where in fact laid back then by the league of nations, now half of this British land was supposed to be an arab state, and that land is not now Israel.
and yes the Idea of a Jewish state was proposed by a Zionist, but you keep saying Zionist like it is a bad word, which it is not, it is akin to calling an american a patriot. some are good patriots, some are wackos, jsut like everywhere else in the world.
Palestine is a geographical region, not a country (well it is starting to be one now, with the peace prosess).
the arabs that sold their lands to jewish settlers...well one reason they are so angry (and thier great grandchildren now) is that they where turned away, or put into refugee camps by thier OWN people, not the jewish settlers, but they blamed the jews cause the deal didn't turn out for them like they thought.
now early Israel, before it was Israel, there where 2 groups, one became the goverment the other was so militant, that there is no choice to call them terrorists, they bombed hotels, and killed etc. But to equate what they dis to Israel (ie the goverment) is like equating McVeigh to the american Gov or al-queda to the entire muslim world (ok, some people do that last one).
Palestine, the area that became Israel was first part of the ottoman empire, when said empire was disolved England got what is now Israel and Jordan (then called Transjordan) and France got Syria. Part of the agreements back then is that they would take these lands and run them while preparing them for self rule, the land of Israel was always slated since then to be a Jewish homeland, so while it was not officially done til 48 the plans where in fact laid back then by the league of nations, now half of this British land was supposed to be an arab state, and that land is not now Israel.
and yes the Idea of a Jewish state was proposed by a Zionist, but you keep saying Zionist like it is a bad word, which it is not, it is akin to calling an american a patriot. some are good patriots, some are wackos, jsut like everywhere else in the world.
paul_valaru
100% Pure Canadian Beef
Jews for Justice for Palastine is hardly what I would call a reliable source.
i find no record of , Ramleh, Dawimiyya, Sa'sa, Ein Zietunby any reputable news site when i goolge it, only pro arab sights.
sounds like a lot of the writings of this guy crazy dude he is on the line of holocaust denyers
now some stuff
Myths & Facts Online
The Refugees
By Mitchell G. Bard
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“One million Palestinians were expelled by Israel from 1947-49.”
“The Jews made clear from the outset they had no intention of living peacefully with their Arab neighbors.”
“The Jews created the refugee problem by expelling the Palestinians.”
“The Arab invasion had little impact on the Palestinian Arabs.”
“Arab leaders never encouraged the Palestinians to flee.”
“The Palestinian Arabs had to flee to avoid being massacred as were the peaceful villagers in Deir Yassin.”
“Israel refused to allow Palestinians to return to their homes so Jews could steal their property.”
“UN resolutions call for Israel to repatriate all Palestinian refugees.”
“Israel blocked negotiations by the Palestine Conciliation Commission.”
“Palestinians who wanted to return to their homes posed no danger to Israeli security.”
“The Palestinian refugees were ignored by an uncaring world.”
“The Arab states have provided most of the funds for helping the Palestinian refugees.”
“The Arab states have always welcomed the Palestinians and done their best to resettle them.”
“Millions of Palestinians are confined to squalid refugee camps.”
“Israel forced the Palestinian refugees to stay in camps in the Gaza Strip.”
“Refugees have always been repatriated, only the Palestinians have been barred from returning to their homes.”
“Had the Palestinian refugees been repatriated, the Arab-Israeli conflict could have ended.”
“Israel expelled more Palestinians in 1967.”
“UNRWA is purely a humanitarian organization that bears no responsibility for the terror and incitement that originates in the refugee camps.”
MYTH
"One million Palestinians were expelled by Israel from 1947-49."
FACT
The Palestinians left their homes in 1947-49 for a variety of reasons. Thousands of wealthy Arabs left in anticipation of a war, thousands more responded to Arab leaders' calls to get out of the way of the advancing armies, a handful were expelled, but most simply fled to avoid being caught in the cross fire of a battle.
Many Arabs claim that 800,000 to 1,000,000 Palestinians became refugees in 1947-49. The last census was taken by the British in 1945. It found approximately 1.2 million permanent Arab residents in all of Palestine. A 1949 Government of Israel census counted 160,000 Arabs living in the country after the war. In 1947, a total of 809,100 Arabs lived in the same area.1 This meant no more than 650,000 Palestinian Arabs could have become refugees. A report by the UN Mediator on Palestine arrived at an even lower figure — 472,000, and calculated that only about 360,000 Arab refugees required aid.2
Although much is heard about the plight of the Palestinian refugees, little is said about the Jews who fled from Arab states. Their situation had long been precarious. During the 1947 UN debates, Arab leaders threatened them. For example, Egypt's delegate told the General Assembly: "The lives of one million Jews in Muslim countries would be jeopardized by partition."3
The number of Jews fleeing Arab countries for Israel in the years following Israel's independence was nearly double the number of Arabs leaving Palestine. Many Jews were allowed to take little more than the shirts on their backs. These refugees had no desire to be repatriated. Little is heard about them because they did not remain refugees for long. Of the 820,000 Jewish refugees between 1948 and 1972, 586,000 were resettled in Israel at great expense, and without any offer of compensation from the Arab governments who confiscated their possessions.3a Israel has consequently maintained that any agreement to compensate the Palestinian refugees must also include Arab compensation for Jewish refugees. To this day, the Arab states have refused to pay any compensation to the hundreds of thousands of Jews who were forced to abandon their property before fleeing those countries. Through November 2003, 101 of the 681 UN resolutions on the Middle East conflict referred directly to Palestinian refugees. Not one mentioned the Jewish refugees from Arab countries.3b
The contrast between the reception of Jewish and Palestinian refugees is even starker when one considers the difference in cultural and geographic dislocation experienced by the two groups. Most Jewish refugees traveled hundreds — and some traveled thousands — of miles to a tiny country whose inhabitants spoke a different language. Most Arab refugees never left Palestine at all; they traveled a few miles to the other side of the truce line, remaining inside the vast Arab nation that they were part of linguistically, culturally and ethnically.
MYTH
"The Jews made clear from the outset they had no intention of living peacefully with their Arab neighbors."
FACT
In numerous instances, Jewish leaders urged the Arabs to remain in Palestine and become citizens of Israel. The Assembly of Palestine Jewry issued this appeal on October 2, 1947:
We will do everything in our power to maintain peace, and establish a cooperation gainful to both [Jews and Arabs]. It is now, here and now, from Jerusalem itself, that a call must go out to the Arab nations to join forces with Jewry and the destined Jewish State and work shoulder to shoulder for our common good, for the peace and progress of sovereign equals.4
On November 30, the day after the UN partition vote, the Jewish Agency announced: "The main theme behind the spontaneous celebrations we are witnessing today is our community's desire to seek peace and its determination to achieve fruitful cooperation with the Arabs...."5
Israel's Proclamation of Independence, issued May 14, 1948, also invited the Palestinians to remain in their homes and become equal citizens in the new state:
In the midst of wanton aggression, we yet call upon the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve the ways of peace and play their part in the development of the State, on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its bodies and institutions....We extend our hand in peace and neighborliness to all the neighboring states and their peoples, and invite them to cooperate with the independent Jewish nation for the common good of all.
so there was rape, by ARAB soldiers.
source
also onto refugees....seems jews might have been displaced as well....read me
i find no record of , Ramleh, Dawimiyya, Sa'sa, Ein Zietunby any reputable news site when i goolge it, only pro arab sights.
sounds like a lot of the writings of this guy crazy dude he is on the line of holocaust denyers
now some stuff
Myths & Facts Online
The Refugees
By Mitchell G. Bard
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“One million Palestinians were expelled by Israel from 1947-49.”
“The Jews made clear from the outset they had no intention of living peacefully with their Arab neighbors.”
“The Jews created the refugee problem by expelling the Palestinians.”
“The Arab invasion had little impact on the Palestinian Arabs.”
“Arab leaders never encouraged the Palestinians to flee.”
“The Palestinian Arabs had to flee to avoid being massacred as were the peaceful villagers in Deir Yassin.”
“Israel refused to allow Palestinians to return to their homes so Jews could steal their property.”
“UN resolutions call for Israel to repatriate all Palestinian refugees.”
“Israel blocked negotiations by the Palestine Conciliation Commission.”
“Palestinians who wanted to return to their homes posed no danger to Israeli security.”
“The Palestinian refugees were ignored by an uncaring world.”
“The Arab states have provided most of the funds for helping the Palestinian refugees.”
“The Arab states have always welcomed the Palestinians and done their best to resettle them.”
“Millions of Palestinians are confined to squalid refugee camps.”
“Israel forced the Palestinian refugees to stay in camps in the Gaza Strip.”
“Refugees have always been repatriated, only the Palestinians have been barred from returning to their homes.”
“Had the Palestinian refugees been repatriated, the Arab-Israeli conflict could have ended.”
“Israel expelled more Palestinians in 1967.”
“UNRWA is purely a humanitarian organization that bears no responsibility for the terror and incitement that originates in the refugee camps.”
MYTH
"One million Palestinians were expelled by Israel from 1947-49."
FACT
The Palestinians left their homes in 1947-49 for a variety of reasons. Thousands of wealthy Arabs left in anticipation of a war, thousands more responded to Arab leaders' calls to get out of the way of the advancing armies, a handful were expelled, but most simply fled to avoid being caught in the cross fire of a battle.
Many Arabs claim that 800,000 to 1,000,000 Palestinians became refugees in 1947-49. The last census was taken by the British in 1945. It found approximately 1.2 million permanent Arab residents in all of Palestine. A 1949 Government of Israel census counted 160,000 Arabs living in the country after the war. In 1947, a total of 809,100 Arabs lived in the same area.1 This meant no more than 650,000 Palestinian Arabs could have become refugees. A report by the UN Mediator on Palestine arrived at an even lower figure — 472,000, and calculated that only about 360,000 Arab refugees required aid.2
Although much is heard about the plight of the Palestinian refugees, little is said about the Jews who fled from Arab states. Their situation had long been precarious. During the 1947 UN debates, Arab leaders threatened them. For example, Egypt's delegate told the General Assembly: "The lives of one million Jews in Muslim countries would be jeopardized by partition."3
The number of Jews fleeing Arab countries for Israel in the years following Israel's independence was nearly double the number of Arabs leaving Palestine. Many Jews were allowed to take little more than the shirts on their backs. These refugees had no desire to be repatriated. Little is heard about them because they did not remain refugees for long. Of the 820,000 Jewish refugees between 1948 and 1972, 586,000 were resettled in Israel at great expense, and without any offer of compensation from the Arab governments who confiscated their possessions.3a Israel has consequently maintained that any agreement to compensate the Palestinian refugees must also include Arab compensation for Jewish refugees. To this day, the Arab states have refused to pay any compensation to the hundreds of thousands of Jews who were forced to abandon their property before fleeing those countries. Through November 2003, 101 of the 681 UN resolutions on the Middle East conflict referred directly to Palestinian refugees. Not one mentioned the Jewish refugees from Arab countries.3b
The contrast between the reception of Jewish and Palestinian refugees is even starker when one considers the difference in cultural and geographic dislocation experienced by the two groups. Most Jewish refugees traveled hundreds — and some traveled thousands — of miles to a tiny country whose inhabitants spoke a different language. Most Arab refugees never left Palestine at all; they traveled a few miles to the other side of the truce line, remaining inside the vast Arab nation that they were part of linguistically, culturally and ethnically.
MYTH
"The Jews made clear from the outset they had no intention of living peacefully with their Arab neighbors."
FACT
In numerous instances, Jewish leaders urged the Arabs to remain in Palestine and become citizens of Israel. The Assembly of Palestine Jewry issued this appeal on October 2, 1947:
We will do everything in our power to maintain peace, and establish a cooperation gainful to both [Jews and Arabs]. It is now, here and now, from Jerusalem itself, that a call must go out to the Arab nations to join forces with Jewry and the destined Jewish State and work shoulder to shoulder for our common good, for the peace and progress of sovereign equals.4
On November 30, the day after the UN partition vote, the Jewish Agency announced: "The main theme behind the spontaneous celebrations we are witnessing today is our community's desire to seek peace and its determination to achieve fruitful cooperation with the Arabs...."5
Israel's Proclamation of Independence, issued May 14, 1948, also invited the Palestinians to remain in their homes and become equal citizens in the new state:
In the midst of wanton aggression, we yet call upon the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve the ways of peace and play their part in the development of the State, on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its bodies and institutions....We extend our hand in peace and neighborliness to all the neighboring states and their peoples, and invite them to cooperate with the independent Jewish nation for the common good of all.
so there was rape, by ARAB soldiers.
source
also onto refugees....seems jews might have been displaced as well....read me
paul_valaru
100% Pure Canadian Beef
jenin massacre